Do you wrestle with feelings of being too dependent or–at the other end of the spectrum–overly independent? If you, or someone you love, struggles with finding the ideal balance between these two poles, you’re not alone. Given society’s tendency to foster the ideal of independence (or hyper-independence), many individuals, couples, and families struggle with discovering the ideal level of interdependence that fosters safety and the ability to individuate, bloom, and grow. Join Dr. Carla and mental health expert Manami Yamamoto, LMFT, for a gentle conversation about the art of creating healthy interdependence. Topics discussed include enmeshment, secure attachment, insecure attachment, anxious attachment, boundaries, emotional awareness, emotional struggles, balance, autonomy, personal freedom, collectivism, individualism, interdependence, codependency, co-support, boundaries, cultural needs, cultural differences, hyper-independence, and anxiety.

Please note that this episode contains sensitive trauma-related material; listener discretion is advised.

Emergency Assistance Note: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling “911” or “988” (Suicide and Crisis Hotline). Additional links are in the show notes.

PTSD Hotline: https://mentalhealthhotline.org/ptsd-hotline/

NAMI Helpline: https://www.nami.org/support-education/nami-helpline/

Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly

Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend

Aging Joyfully: A Woman’s Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and Beyond

The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships

Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:

Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarlamanly/

Twitter/X: https://www.twitter.com/drcarlamanly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drcarlamanly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-marie-manly-8682362b/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.carlamariemanly8543

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr_carla_manly

Connect with Manami Yamamoto:

Website: https://www.manamiyamamototherapy.com/, https://www.bluehummingtherapy.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/manami.h.yamamoto/, https://www.instagram.com/bluehummingtherapy/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/manami.therapy/, https://www.facebook.com/bluehummingtherapy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manami-yamamoto-lmft-61703214/

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Discover the Balance and Joy of Healthy Interdependence with Expert Manami Yamamoto

How to Stop Struggling with Boundaries, Enmeshment, or Hyper-Independence

Balancing Dependence and Interdependence

Do you or someone struggle with feelings of being too independent or at the other end of the spectrum, feelings of being overly independent? It’s actually quite common to struggle with finding that ideal balance between these two poles, the poles of feeling either enmeshed or hyper-independent.

Given our society’s tendency to foster that ideal of independence or even hyper-independence, many individuals, couples, and families struggle with discovering that ideal level of flowing interdependence, that beautiful sense of being connected yet autonomous that fosters the safety that we need and the ability to individuate, bloom and grow as individuals. We’ll focus on this listener’s real-life question.

“I’m in an exclusive relationship with a great partner, but we have a lot of friction around what he calls my overly dependent and enmeshed relationship with my family. I was born in the Philippines where family connections tend to be very strong and supportive. I talk to my sisters daily and see my parents on weekends.” I don’t think this is a problem, do you? With that question as the focus of our episode. Please note, this episode may contain sensitive information. Listener discretion is advised. If you need support, please see the special links in the show notes.

 

 

I’m joined by a very special guest, Manami Yamamoto. Manami will be sharing her expertise on the balance between dependence and interdependence. Manami is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She is the founder and president of Blue Humming Therapy, as well as the founder and president of the Mental Health Environmental Change Project, a U.S. and Japan hybrid. Welcome to the show Manami, it is such a pleasure to have you with us.

Thank you so much for having me. I’m so glad to be here.

It’s wonderful to connect with you. Before we launch into the topic, could you tell our listeners just a little bit about what makes you, you?

Thank you so much. I’m Manami and I am a psychotherapist. I pretty much enjoy being myself. I like nature. I like my two cats. I like music and art. That’s me. Also, I’m part of something bigger than me, like culture. I’m Asian, a woman. It’s part of the nature too. I’m like a combination of myself and also the bigger than me. That’s me.

That is an exquisite description. Thank you. I’ve never heard someone say that. I’m following you. That sense that, yes, you’re there, you’re a mom, you’re doing your work, you’re lighting the world for others. That makes you a part of this bigger world, a bigger world of nature and humanity and beyond. Thank you.

You’re a psychotherapist, you’re also from Asia and have a lot of connections and really working to support mental health and wellness globally. You’re a perfect fit for this ongoing issue of interdependence that we see, particularly in American society, where we are raised to believe that we should be independent.

Once we’re eighteen, we leave the home and we’re out and we’re making our way. If you return home, there’s something wrong with you. There’s this failure to launch or a failure to be independent where our ancestors lived in communities where three generations, four generations in a household at one time. The many benefits of that, I really have to give a shout out to the benefits.

You didn’t have to farm out child care. Grandma was there. Great-grandma was there. You didn’t have to farm out your elders to care facilities because there was this beautiful cycle of life and

cycle of caring. You cared for the little ones and then as people became older. This is part of what cultures have known since there was man on the planet and woman on the planet. Can you tell me a little bit about your thoughts first about the hyper-individualistic society that we live in now? Could you set the stage, Manami, for some of these definitions so our readers can start getting in this flow with us?

Hyper-Individualistic Society vs. Interdependent Cultures

Yes, thank you. Individualistic. That’s a very difficult word to think about because I came to the U.S. when I was nineteen, but until that time, I wasn’t sure what is the individualistic and what is the interdependence. I’m originally from Japan, so when I was in Japan, I never thought about interdependent or like co-dependency or enmeshed.

I never thought about that because it was pretty normal in that culture. After I came to the US, I realized, maybe this is a little different. It seems like people more focus on themselves. That’s individualistic. Until that time, I never thought about, “I am growing up in an interdependent culture” This is the time.

I also thought about, “I have a right to think about what is the happiest thing just for myself.” That’s the start of thinking about individualistic. Sometimes people use the word, it’s more like selfish in some cultural sense, people think about individualistic is more selfish, especially in Asian culture. This is a time so I start thinking, “It’s not just selfish, it’s more like how we can maximize our own individual happiness.” That’s the definition of individualism.

Individualism is often misunderstood. Some people, especially in certain Asian cultures, equate it with selfishness. But it's not about selfishness; it's about how we can maximize each individual's happiness. Share on X

Thank you for adding clarity to that and thank you for also setting it apart very clearly from being selfish. We can be individualistic and still consider others. We do tend to be more self-focused and we can see even in very collectivistic cultures, there are people within those cultures who are very selfish. Differentiating those terms is so important. Let’s also talk for a moment about, and I love that the listeners, the question of the day, used this term that’s often thrown around enmeshment. Would you describe enmeshment, please?

Defining Enmeshment and Cultural Tolerance of Dependence

Yes, so enmeshment is also, it was a new word at the time, a long time ago. It’s like enmeshment, it’s like we’re all very dependent on each other, and then the key is that we feel emotional struggle because of that. Sometimes like we talk about the boundary between two people or more people, but when we are we have a very different respectful personal boundary. For example, family members close the boundaries of people start feeling a little uncomfortable or stressed.

Enmeshment it’s like we need to figure out what is the healthy boundary yourself and others. I think we can call it enmeshment sometimes, but a tolerance of co-dependency is very different. I bring it up like Asian culture because they are like tolerance level of co-dependent is actually higher than in more individualistic cultures. We really need to figure out, what is the healthy boundary for that specific family or couple. We cannot just label somebody, “You are enmeshed.” That’s my understanding about enmeshment and what is a healthy boundary.

Thank you for that clarity. For our readers who might’ve heard the term enmeshment, we do use it as Manami said to indicate that there is emotional distress, some sense of being hampered. That needs to be present and that’s different for every individual, different for every family and every relationship. Some people like a really connective and some might call it a hyperconnective relationship but if that feels good to both people and it’s not harming them in any way and it’s helping them then that’s perfect for them.

Other people do much better being having more distance. As long as they’re high functioning and they’re healthy then that’s okay. We want to be looking at all of these things is there dysfunction? Is there emotional distress on the part of any person in that system? Could you talk a little bit about codependence? I know we’re getting some of the definitions out of the way and that’s a word that I tend to clear of in some ways because in American society we use

codependency as though it’s coins that were scattering on the ground. It’s just easy to throw it out there. I have my own way of using codependency. How do you use codependency, Manami?

Actually, I don’t really like the word codependent because, for some reason, I believe that a human actually needs to be codependent. In a psychological term, so we use that word in a negative way. Maybe somebody can create a new word for that. Yes, we need to be codependent, but too much codependent is so difficult. More like co-support like mutual support can be the right word. The word itself, I don’t like that much, but like the codependence, more helping each other to sustain their life.

We need codependency, but too much can be difficult. Share on X

Redefining Codependency as “Co-Support”

For this show, let’s use your new term, co-support. Let’s use co-support. I think that’s beautiful. I will just for the sake of this show use codependency in a very discreet fashion to say if we talk about codependency at all, because it has so many permutations and meanings, depending upon where you are. We’ll just relegate it to mean only supporting someone in a negative behavior.

If somebody wants cocaine and you support them somehow in getting that cocaine or ignore the cocaine or so that you benefit, we’ll call that. We’ll keep it over there. That’s codependency. We’ll generally stay with co-support in this podcast because I think that’s a lovely energy. When we think about this reader’s question, the individual is from the Philippines. I don’t know the gender of the individual.

The individual has a male partner. The male partner is saying you are enmeshed and too connected to your family, yet this individual sounds like they are very much enjoying talking to sisters and seeing parents on the weekend, that it’s part of their culture. The individuals from the Philippines, again from the people I know who are Filipino, they do tend to have very lovely, connected, highly supportive family dynamics. What do you think about this question and what would you say about whether or not it’s too dependent?

That’s a very difficult question because I think everybody is coming from different backgrounds. One of the partners thinks, “This person is codependent or enmeshed.” For other people, that’s normal in that cultural sense in the family structure. That’s normal. We usually don’t start from that point. It’s more like a try to understand where this person is coming from and that I navigate my clients That way because when it’s normal for some people maybe it was a little bit codependent and enmeshed but this is the way family and a culture survive.

 

 

If somebody tells you, “You’re enmeshed. you’re codependent.” That person will get hurt. This was the way I lived my life, but somebody said, “It’s like a symptom, that’s a problem.” That’s not going anywhere. That’s why I usually don’t go that direction more understanding where it’s coming from and what’s the difference. We just acknowledge that. That’s the first point. I start with my clients.

Thank you. Let’s just pause on the acknowledgment to acknowledge that this co-supportive more dependent than the partner might have been raised to be, but this is working for this individual who wrote in. For the partner to be able to acknowledge, wait, this is the culture, this is what’s normal, it’s not putting this person in a state of distress, there aren’t any negative behaviors coming from it that we can tell it sounds more as if it’s something that the partner’s not familiar with. Through the lens of a hyper-independent American society, it may seem enmeshed, it may seem too co-supportive, but it is actually for this individual healthy, connective, and it feels right. That’s that sweet spot, correct?

Yes, that’s correct. I really want everyone to know, that we have a lot of blind spots and then we have some reaction to something unknown. We can be judgmental. We cannot criticize others if we meet something we don’t know. That’s coming from fear. That’s the stuff why we need to be aware of that. We have a blind spot, we can be reactive to meet something unknown.

 

This sounds to me, Manami, thank you for this blind spot piece because it sounds as if it’s part two. The acknowledgment that there’s a difference here. The difference in culture, the difference in needs, whatever it might be, the difference in family systems. Step two then is to go into one of my favorite areas, which is fear. What’s the fear? When I think of my first book, Joy from Fear, it’s the way we get to joy is by looking at what are the fears.

What are the unrealistic fears so that we can see that perhaps when I think of what you said, look at the blind spots? This is an unfamiliar situation. The partner is not familiar with this culture. It seems odd, it seems strange, so it’s the partner’s reacting. If the partner can be supported, whether through going back and forth with the person that he’s in the relationship with or going to therapy or partner therapy, might be able to see what are my fears around this. What is making me have such a hard time with my partners, healthy for them, connection to their family?

Yes. Usually, people don’t want to feel fear. They want to control everything. As you said, we are aware our own fear and then we work as a couple to process and then in the end so we can find the joy. We cannot just drop the fear. It’s fear is there but it’s we can acknowledge there is a fear but it doesn’t take over you, it doesn’t take over the family. That’s okay. It’s part of our emotion but it’s there.

When we become aware of things like fear, we can work together as a couple to process it. By doing so, we can ultimately find joy. Share on X

I agree because fear is one of our five core emotions. Fear, disgust, sadness, joy, anger. They’re all there for a reason. They’re just messengers. If we learn to slow down and as you said not be controlled by them, and I so appreciate that you said, work as a couple to process the situation. Sometimes easier said than done but for the person who wrote in to be able to express that this feels right, it feels good, it feels connective, I’m able to do all my other tasks in life, I’m not held hostage by these people, this feels good to me. To be able to ask the partner, what are your fears here?

Are you worried that I won’t be able to create a family with you? Are you worried that you don’t see me enough? Are you worried that I won’t grow and individuate and blossom as much as I could in life? When we learn to have conversations, even sometimes they bring up anxiety. I mean, conversations about our emotions can make us anxious. What you’re saying is a couple can come together and process because relationships are imperfect. Love is imperfect. Two people are not going to be the same cookie-cutter images of each other. When these things come up, it’s a chance to create more understanding.

Yes, that’s right. When a couple can acknowledge fear or other feelings, but if they can accept your partner’s vulnerability and try to understand the emotions of each other, then we can unfold as a couple. That’s the beauty of the couple therapy.

I’m a strong believer in couples therapy. It’s one of my favorite types of work because we can see that if you have two people who are willing to come to work, to be vulnerable, not to blame, but learn to be more and more curious and that non-judgmental curiosity is the key to coming intimacy with another person.

Yes, I’m so glad you mentioned the by intimacy. Yes, that’s the way to have an intimacy. Yes, the process is necessary to have more intimacy.

I recall a long time ago when I was in therapy, the woman said, “Intimacy is into me I see.” I said, “Yes. I laid it was an epiphany.” I thought, “Yes, intimacy is also into you I see.” When we’re with the person, first we need to be able to go into me I see, and then to be able to have the patience and willingness and the openness to go into our partner, whoever it is, a romantic partner, a friend, a child, and be able to go and see into them as well and not make it right or wrong or good or bad.

 

It may be different. It may be uncomfortable. The other piece that I really like about this work is that we learn. When we’re willing to get out of our own sphere, our own headspace that independence is right, and this other family system where people are way too connected and that’s not familiar and it’s got to be wrong, that keeps us really stuck any time we’re in that dichotomy of good, bad, right, wrong.

Finding the Best Balance for You

We like to judge like a right or wrong. It’s very black and white, but it’s not like that. It’s not like that. We need all elements to leave us as human beings and for the couple for the family. That’s why like we talking about what is the best balance for each couple, and each family. It can be different from everybody. Family or couple, they can find the best balance for them. That’s the process we are doing through couples therapy or family therapy.

 

 

Again, I so appreciate you bringing up another word that’s so key, which is balance. If we imagine for this partner, if he’s seeing this individual always on the phone, from his perspective, always on the phone with the sisters, with the parents every weekend. He may feel like it’s out of balance, like he’s not getting enough time with the partner.

If that’s the case, that back and forth in couples therapy or even without a therapist, if they can do the work together to find, “Maybe the partner does need to pull back slightly if there is insufficient time for him. Again, it’s not that the family setup is bad. It might be that this partner needs more tender loving care, more couple time, more one-on-one activities, and that too is okay, but it is that process of finding balance going into what are your needs, what are your fears.

When people talk about balance, so when I work with my clients, I usually tell them, “I understand they want to find a balance right away, but balance is not something you can find right away. As we talk, we acknowledge each other, we work together, we understand each other, and we continue that process over and over. Finally, we find the balance.” People sometimes say no, and sometimes people get it wrong. “Yes, I want to find the balance, please help me.” It’s not like that. We are human beings. We need that process over and then we find a balance at the end. This process is sometimes painful, and stressful. People come to therapy. Yes, so a third person or professional can help those processes because it’s a painful process sometimes.

Thank you, Manami, for bringing up that piece, in fact, the world itself is becoming more like this, but America is a lot at the forefront of the idea that everything is a quick fix. People are disposable. We should be able to pop a pill, get a new outfit, do this, do that, and that will cure everything. The truth is that if you prize self-work if you prize personal development, that’s where we do see that we must be very patient with ourselves and with others. As we grow and change, not allowing abuse or destructive behaviors while we’re doing that, but really realizing that we are the product of somewhat our genetics, somewhat our environment, our relationships, all those things that bring us to where we are at this moment.

If a person’s 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, however many decades they’ve been on the planet, that’s how many decades their brain has been wired to behave in certain ways. If we’re shifting to another realm, that’s going to take a lot of work to find a new balance. What we might have called balance, that old homeostasis, which may not have really been balanced, but it was homeostasis. If we are changing and getting out of something that didn’t work for us, we must be patient with ourselves.

As you say, try again and again and again and it is a slow turning but it’s one of the most beautiful parts of being a psychotherapist is watching people come in and they may not see their changes but you and I have the blessing and the joy of watching that evolution and being present with those painful parts. It is often difficult when you’re working with couples because they are in great pain and as a psychotherapist you cannot fix it.

 

You can guide, you can be there, you can create that space and be a guide but there is often in individual therapy and couple therapy and family therapy, there’s often pain. I’d like your opinion on this, I think the pain comes from moving out of the dysfunctional behavior, the dysfunctional patterns from the past that feel familiar, they feel safe, they feel comfortably uncomfortable. Also sometimes during these changes, there’s also healing or acknowledgment of old trauma that’s been stuck. As people work through those pieces of trauma that may be well below their conscious awareness, that causes pain, unprocessed grief, and unprocessed trauma.

All of these things that actually might be part of, we don’t know, we don’t know anything about the partner, but the partner may indeed be holding on to some old pieces of trauma or pain, maybe about a family that wasn’t close and connected. This partner is bringing that up unconsciously, “I wish I had such a close family. I wish I had a mom and dad and sisters that cared about me that much.” We don’t know, but that’s what comes out in therapy if the partners are willing to do the work.

The Challenge of Quick Fix Culture and the Importance of Patience in Personal Growth

Yes. For everyone, a change is oftentimes very scary, painful, and stressful. As we talk, sometimes a change needs a patient too, but because of that stress and then fear, people want a quick change. I was thinking about how people can be patient and feel okay about that transition. We pretty much try to focus on how to be a quick change, a quick fix, but more like I start navigating my clients to focus on more humanity.

We are not perfect, we are vulnerable, and we cannot change that fast, but that’s okay, that’s part of human beings. It’s navigating people in that direction and feeling more love and compassion for our imperfections as human beings. That’s helping many people. They can be patient and they feel okay about the change. Even they feel scared or they feel stressed about the change.

We are all imperfect. We are all vulnerable. We cannot change that fast, but that's okay. That's part of being human. Share on X

Normalizing because often when people are in therapy and they’re beginning to shift and it does feel uncomfortable. Sometimes you cannot wait to go to that next session and sometimes you don’t want to go to the next session because it’s really scary. It’s so important because it’s my belief that one of the reasons we are here on the planet is to become our best selves not to accrue this and that I mean that’s so temporary.

The reason I wrote my fourth book, The Joy of Imperfect Love, if we can find out how to love ourselves and love others truly and deeply, where they are at, continuing to evolve in our relationships, all of them, romantic, family, friendships, work relationships. To me, that’s the gift of life. That we have the ability, we have the privilege to evolve rather than seeing therapy as a big scary monster. If we see therapy, whether we’re doing it with ourselves if we’re able to do that or doing it with a professional or doing it with a book, what a privilege that we have the gift of neuroplasticity, that we can actually change our brains.

We can change our lives. We can change our relationships. It doesn’t matter how old we are, we can still do this. I think sometimes people don’t see it as a privilege. They see it as, “I have to do this.” Instead, we don’t think too much about having to put work into baking or going to our job or working on a garden or hobby, but they all take work. Wouldn’t we want to work on this beautiful thing called the self and these beautiful things called our relationships?

I really like you said the privilege. It’s a privilege as a human being, right? We can grow as a human. We can change what we want to. It takes time, but we have the power to change. Yes, that’s a privilege.

I think it’s really beautiful when we think of however many decades were on the planet if we see this work on the self and within our relationships. Going into the reader’s question again. If they

don’t make it a right-wrong thing, but let me understand more about your inner world and what your needs are and I’ll tell you more about my inner world and what my needs are. The partner who is saying there’s enmeshment and the partner who’s saying, “I love my family. This is the way it is.”

Maybe they can come to a place where they create that balance that allows them both to enjoy the beauty of interdependence. That sweet spot of where I call, I think you and I might have at some point in the past talked about this. In The Joy of Imperfect Love, I talk about the four styles of relationships. The very entangled one where people are like a very tightly knit brade and the interdependent where they’re flowing in and out of each other’s lives.

They’re okay apart but they really want to come back together and connect and there’s this beautiful loose weave. A third style where it’s two train tracks and the people see each other they’re more like roommates and they’re chugging along and it’s working for them but they might feel very disconnected. The divergent style where you have these two rails going off in different directions where the people really don’t know each other intimate way at all and often don’t connect.

That would be really hyper-independent. What you and I, it sounds like we’re very much on the same page of that interdependence which will look different for every person, for every couple, for every family. If we create that interdependence, that flow, it naturally allows each person to have their required level of freedom and autonomy, but they’re not running away from the intimacy. They want to come back to that intimacy. How do you see that’s kind of my version of interdependence? How do you define interdependence?

Understanding and Navigating Interdependence in Relationships

Interdependent is a very difficult word for everyone. As you say, it’s not just the one single structure for the whole life. It’s more like dancing, like moving sometimes different types of relationships. The couple’s needs or family needs. Based on your life transition, so you might need a different type of interaction. It’s more like just the dancing and then we need to update almost every version in 2024, and 2025, and you really need to think about what is the best healthy interaction relationship based on your life stage, based on your relationship with your partner.

 

 

If you have a family like children, you might have a different relationship as well. I really want everyone to think about what is the best relationship, the best connection with my partner at this point here and now. It’s not just the one single stuff forever. I really want to remind everyone to think about.

I’d love to restate what you said because it’s so brilliant and what I took away from that, is that your definition of interdependence is a unique dance based upon the individual’s needs, their life stage, and the relationship itself. That’s beautiful, Manami. That is so beautiful. I know we’re wrapping up a bit toward the end of our time together, which I could talk to you about these topics for a very long time, but I don’t want to miss the opportunity to dive into for a bit on a very important piece you mentioned early on, the importance of boundaries.

 

 

Boundaries, that word is used so much now and people use it sometimes in healthy ways, sometimes in ways that aren’t appropriate. The way I see boundaries is like this fence. We have this home, this home of our being. For some people, we don’t need a fence. They just are able, they respect us. We have a good relationship so they can come in and out of our home and we have this beautiful flow. For some people, we need a white picket fence where it’s like, stop. You can see through, but you know it’s a little more, a little more structured.

For some people, that white picket fence needs a lock on it. For some people who don’t really respect our boundaries, they need a concrete wall. Like that wall, “You’re not coming through, no.” Of course, different boundaries, depending upon the situation, and a lot of flow, depending upon

what the person needs. When we look at healthy boundaries, we can see that depending upon the people in the relationship, the boundaries may be very porous, and very fluid. In other situations, the boundaries may need to be very strong and fix. What we want to look for is whether or not the people on both sides feel safe seen and heard. How would you describe boundaries in your unique way?

The Concept of Healthy Boundaries and Co-Creation in Relationships

First I won’t tell everyone, everybody struggles about the boundary. I never met people who don’t feel like I was stressed about the boundary. Everybody struggled with the boundary. That’s actually the difficult one. I’m starting from there, but I really want everybody to talk to yourself. What’s my comfortability in this relationship? You know your boundary, you understand your partner’s boundary. From there, so couple creates a new boundary as a couple. Don’t push like to my way or his way.

Understand your partner's boundaries, and from there, you create new boundaries together as a couple. Don't push for your way or their way. Instead, try to create something in the middle that works for both of you. Share on X

A couple try to create something in the middle, it works for both of you. That’s like a process we need to qualify. What kind of boundary do we need to sustain this relationship? That’s the thing as we can walk around the boundary. People have a very different sense of boundary. As I said, some people are okay, more like easy like a boundary. Some people have more rigid boundary. We really need to understand where your partner is coming from. What’s your partner’s boundary? What’s your boundary? We can co-create the new boundary for both of you.

One of my favorite words is co-creation. When we stop using the right, wrong, good, band ad, and look at it, let’s co-create something. I think a common example of that in relationships, often one partner might be really okay with family just stopping by unannounced because that’s part of their culture, the way they were raised, their personal comfort level, and the other partner might be, “No, you call first.” You have people call and see if it’s a convenient time for family, for friends, for anyone. That might be something.

That’s a really good example of being able to say, “My boundary is more that I tend to be private.” When I’m home, if you could make sure your family calls first, and when you’re home by yourself, if you’re okay with them coming, that would be okay. Working on that co-creation so that both people feel respected, and safe scene and realizing that our boundaries change depending upon the relationship, depending upon the situation within that relationship and your work boundaries are almost necessarily a lot more inflexible.

I mean you might not be telling people at work the things you’re going to be telling your best friend or your partner and so we want to realize that our boundaries are intended to move based on the situation but always moving them mindfully and holding on to them mindfully. Letting other people know what our boundaries are, not expecting them to know, and working in that way I think helps. What do you think of that, Manami?

I totally agree with you. I really appreciate so you like helping us to like, “We can go that direction. It’s okay.” I really appreciate you giving the message to me and to the readers right now. It’s okay. We can move forward like that.

Thank you. I was just thinking how important it is for us to realize that one of the biggest reasons they’re there is so that we feel safe and secure. The more someone has earned our trust. The heavy emphasis is under-earned because trust is earned. Sometimes we give the keys to the home of the self too soon. Sometimes we are so afraid we don’t give them to somebody who’s even earned our trust. That is the art of Healthy Boundaries is having people earn our trust. Once trust is earned, being able to have that ability to be vulnerable and trusting so that the relationship can have that beautiful foundation of safety and security and imperfect love. Manami, are there any other pieces you’d like to share with us?

We talk about like many things, balance, boundary, independent, and interdependent. We all needed to have a relationship with somebody. I’s a lot, but we can walk together. You can walk with your partner. You can walk with the family. You can walk with a professional like us. You are not alone. You have a lot of supporters. I want to tell everyone, so you are not alone. It might be hard, but you can see joy and happiness at the end after this process. We are very happy to support you. This is a message I want to share with everyone.

 

 

Thank you for that key reminder. Thank you, Manami. It’s so important for us to spread that word and for our readers to know. It’s why people like Manami and I do what we do, we want others to know you are not alone. There are resources, there is support. Sometimes when you feel stressed and alone, it’s difficult to find them, but that’s what mental health professionals are here to do, to spread the word that you are not alone, that you can find the change, the connection, and the healthy interdependence and the love that you deserve. Thank you so much, Manami, for your time, for your wisdom, and for your very gentle and compassionate way of being. I’m very grateful to have shared time with you. Where can our listeners find you?

I have a website and also some SNS, Instagram, and LinkedIn. If somebody is interested, please come to my website to see how I’m working with the community and clients. Thank you so much. I had a really great time to talk with you, Carla. I really appreciate you helping me in this show. Thank you so much. I’ve had such a delightful time with you.

Everyone, Manami is spelled Manami. Her last name is Yamamoto. You can find her at Blue Humming Therapy. She’s the president again of the Mental Health Environmental Change Project. That’s the U.S.-Japan hybrid. Again, thank you, Manami. I’m just so grateful. To our readers, I am so grateful to you for tuning in, and for sharing your time and your energy with us today. This is Imperfect Love.

 

Important Links

• Blue Humming Therapy
• Joy from Fear
• The Joy of Imperfect Love
• Manami Yamamoto Therapy
• Manami Yamamoto’s Instagram
• Manami Yamamoto’s Facebook
• Blue Humming Therapy’s Instagram
• Blue Humming Therapy’s Facebook  
• Manami Yamamoto’s LinkedIn
• Mental Health Hotline
• NAMI Helpline
• Dr. Carla Manly’s Website
• Dr. Carla Manly’s Instagram
• Dr. Carla Manly’s Twitter
• Dr. Carla Manly’s Facebook
• Dr. Carla Manly’s LinkedInDr. Carla Manly’s YouTube
• Dr. Carla Manly’s TikTok

 

About Manami Yamamoto

Manami Yamamoto, the Founder and Director of Blue Humming Therapy and the Mental Health Environment Change Project, is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and Expressive Art Therapist with a distinguished background.

Recognized with the Global Award in 2021, she specializes in providing psychotherapy and psychoeducation to diverse and underserved populations, particularly those facing significant stigma around mental health. Her work is focused on breaking down barriers to mental health care, empowering individuals, and creating a compassionate, non-judgmental space for healing.

With a deep love for everyone she serves, Manami’s mission extends globally as she advocates for accessible and equitable mental health services, especially for marginalized communities. Through seminars, workshops, and other platforms, she tirelessly fosters environments that promote mental well-being and support for all.