Division between generations is not a new issue, yet the disconnect between Gen-Z and older generations can lead to social alienation, interpersonal conflict, and even serious mental health issues. Some see Gen-Z as an overly anxious, stressed group with poor coping skills, a lack of interest in working hard, and destructive screen time overuse. Yet Gen-Zers have so much to offer, and their strengths are often not recognized by those around them. Can open communication be a key tool that helps bring us all together? Can we use our imperfections to foster open, honest interactions that nurture healthy growth? Join Dr. Carla and John Schlimm, a Harvard-trained educator, author, mental health awareness advocate, artist, and Gen-Z expert, for a delightful dive into the simple steps we can all take to improve our connection to ourselves and the wonderful generations around us. This podcast episode explores the power of communication, compromise, attunement, curiosity, play, and learning in boosting mental health, relationship quality, and intergenerational connection.

Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly

Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend 

Aging Joyfully: A Woman’s Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and Beyond

The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships

Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:

Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarlamanly/

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drcarlamanly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drcarlamanly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-marie-manly-8682362b/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.carlamariemanly8543

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr_carla_manly

Books by John Schlimm:

What Would Gen-Z Do?: Everything You Don’t Know About Gen-Z but Should

THE SMILE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD (is yours)

The Star Jumped Over the Moon

Connect with John Schlimm:

Website: https://johnschlimm.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-schlimm-9566b94a/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JohnSchlimm

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnschlimm/

Twitter/X: https://x.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fjohnschlimm

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Listen, Love, And Learn: Bringing Generations Together With Mental Health Advocate And Gen-Z Expert John Schlimm

The division between generations is not a new issue. Yet the disconnect between Gen Z and older generations can lead to social alienation, interpersonal conflict, and even serious mental health issues. Although some see Gen Z as an overly anxious, stressed group with poor coping skills, a lack of interest in working hard, and destructive screen time use, Gen Zers have so much to offer, and their strengths are often not recognized by those around them. 

Can open communication be one of the keys to bringing generations together? We’ll focus on this listener’s real-life question. My daughter, a stressed Gen Z teen, accuses me of micromanaging her. I’m not a helicopter parent, I just do my best to keep her safe by monitoring her schoolwork friendships, phone use, and making sure she gets enough sleep. As a single mom, I see all of this as a sign of love, but she says I’m controlling. What do you think? With that question as the focus of today’s episode.

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I’m joined by a very special guest, John Schlimm. Educator, author, mental health awareness advocate, and the force behind projects such as The Brain That Changed the World is Yours. Welcome to the show, John. It is such a delight to have you with us today. 

It is so awesome to be here and especially talking about one of my favorite topics, Gen Z. 

You are definitely an expert in this realm. Before we launch into the subject of today’s show, can you tell our listeners just a little bit about what makes you, you?

I think what makes me, me is just continuing to learn who I am. Certainly in the last 7, or 8 years, Gen Z has done a great job of helping me to better understand myself as I’ve continued to learn who they are. I’ve learned more about my mental health and what my real priorities are in this life right along with a better understanding of them. They came along at the right point in my life and I look forward to continuing the journey with them.

That is such a beautiful perspective because so often when we’re in a role as a mentor or an educator, we think that we are always helping other people become their best selves. In truth, as you know, I’m in a similar profession. I’m mentoring, I’m working with clients, I’m guiding, and I learn so much, not just about other people, not just about mental health, but about how to be a better human being.

I certainly would not be the person I am now if it weren’t for the last 7, or 8 years that I’ve spent with Gen Zers, actively talking to them across the country, and working with them on various projects. They’ve just taught me how to re-examine that concept of who am I because they’re just so open and courageous and sharing who they are. Luckily, that has been contagious and worn off on me as well. 

It’s such a beautiful perspective about openness because when we look at generations, I remember with my own parents, I had much older brothers and sisters, and in the late ‘60s, I can still hear my dad saying things like talking to my older siblings, and I was tiny, but I remember even in the early ‘70s, “That music you listen to, kids these days are weird, kids these days don’t have a good work ethic, kids these days listen to music that doesn’t make sense.” All of these different beliefs didn’t allow for each generation to connect but created some of the same. The divisiveness that we’re seeing today. 

Even between Millennials, Baby Boomers, and especially with Gen Z, it’s almost as if people look at Gen Z and think, “It’s in its population, they, rather than, wait a minute, this is just a group of young people that are evolving and with helping to make the world a better place. Not that it’s their responsibility to undo many of the wrongs that prior generations have done to the planet and more, but they are charged with quite a lot of responsibility, yet they’re also really devalued in some ways. What do you think about that?

Disconnect Between Generations

There’s a lot to unpack there. First of all, to all of the parents out there listening, there will probably forever and ever be that parent-child dynamic. I’m not going to get into the middle of that, but I think really what has been missing for decades in that dynamic, which is now, I think, we’re at a point where now it can be a game changer, is communication. I don’t think there has ever been the level of communication or the potential for communication that there is now. When I say that, I mean simply talking to each other. 

I think Gen Zers are the most open and courageous generation we have ever seen in history when it comes to things like their mental health, and their gender, any other number of world issues, and they’re willing to talk about those things. I think we, as the older adults, and when I say older adults, the oldest Gen Zers right now are around 26, or 27. Anyone over that is now an older adult. I think it’s up to us to sometimes start those conversations. Once we start those conversations by showing an interest or just asking a question of Gen Zers, we’re going to have the most amazing conversations. 

I think that’s something that can be done inside the home between parent and child to open up those avenues for healthier relationships but it can happen everywhere else in the classroom, in our communities, wherever we’re all gathered. I love that intergenerational dynamic. I think all of us miss out when we don’t take advantage of talking to people in other generations. That’s why I so encourage and have spent the last eight years encouraging older adults, and I will moving forward, to please sit down and have conversations with Gen Zers. I think first of all, you’re going to be impressed by the amazing level of conversations you can have. 

When you were talking about the mother in your introduction, a lot of those stereotypes go out the window when you sit down with these young people. I think that Gen Zers also have a responsibility to talk, or at least attempt to talk to older generations as well. I’m continually encouraging young people to do that as well because I know the benefit I’ve had talking to other generations who are older than me. Look at what I’ve just expressed, how tremendously my life has been changed just in my relationships and conversations with Gen Zers. It’s really incredible.

It is and you’ve said many things that are important, but you said to ask questions. I think that is something we often overlook when we’re talking about having conversations. Often, especially if somebody’s older, they think that that’s a really good time to teach, to give lessons, to tell what the way it should be and that may feel like a conversation. Yet I’ve really come to find and sounds as if it’s the same for you, that being curious, asking questions, not believing that because you’re older you are necessarily wiser, of course, you have the wisdom to bring to the table. Also, I think questions are one of the key pieces, that curiosity, that allow us to connect with people of every age when we are curious. What do you think?

I love curiosity and anyone who knows me knows that I love to ask questions. No matter where I am, I always have a million questions that I’m asking. Look, these are sometimes easy questions to ask. At other times, they’re maybe a little more challenging, especially when you’re talking about things like mental health but they’re important questions to ask. For starters, I think one of the things that we have to do is check in on ourselves before we have these conversations because I think so often it’s the older adults in the room who are the ones being triggered by some of these conversations. 

Again, it’s because Gen Zers are so open and willing to talk about just about anything, we’ve never seen that in any other generation. I think sometimes we are a little triggered thinking, “When I was their age, I didn’t talk about that. I don’t know that it’s appropriate to talk about that. I don’t know how to talk about that.” I think before you even start those discussions, check in on yourself, and be kind to yourself. We’re all on this journey together, figure out am I the one being triggered here? Maybe by talking more about it with Gen Zer or with anyone else in my life, I can be a little less triggered by whatever that topic is. 

Listen, these questions don’t have to be heavy-duty either. One of my favorite questions, especially when I first met a Gen Zer, is I’ll ask them about their tattoos, why they chose that color for their hair, or about their piercings. Those are things that, again, many older adults sometimes roll their eyes at. I think you got to check judgment at the door as well. You’re certainly allowed to have your opinion, but I’ll tell you why, you ask about someone’s tattoos, whether they’re 16 or 40 or 65. I’ve seen some folks in their 80s who have tattoos. You’re going to hear some of the most incredible stories. That is almost an icebreaker that can just lead to such fantastic conversations about so many other things. 

That’s a lovely way of looking at it. I agree with you when we are non-judgmentally curious, just authentically curious, because not all tattoos, but many tattoos tell a story. “I chose that eagle for my shoulder because of this. I chose this one over here because my brother died.” All sorts. I mean, you get some beautiful stories and I have a question for you. I’m thinking about when you were talking about the feelings that can come up because for people in their ‘70s talking about sexuality, people in their 50s, 60s, talking about gender issues, talking about even things like weed use, whatever it is. 

It can feel like talking about religion, or politics, especially if you were raised in an environment that is very dichotomous, good, bad, right, wrong. It can bring up anxiety. I’ve noticed that when somebody brings up something that is anxiety-inducing, people often shut down. You can watch their faces change, their body posture, hands across the chest, all those sorts of things that are happening often unconsciously. I’m a big believer in noticing when that anxiety comes up, noticing when that kind of rigidity happens in the body because it’s a sign, “I’m just uncomfortable.” What do you think about simply allowing those feelings to come up? 

If you’re talking to a Gen Z or who’s starting to talk about bisexuality or polyamory or things that you’re like, “What are they talking about?” Just noticing, “I’m feeling anxious. This is different. I’m not really good at this subject matter. I might not even be current on this subject matter.” What do you think about simply saying, “I’m curious about this? I’m feeling a little uncomfortable because I’ve never navigated this realm before. Are you okay explaining a little bit more to me?” What do you think about just being able to be authentic about your discomfort and your lack of familiarity with certain topics?

I think it’s so important. That really launches some of the best discussions we can have. First of all, we have to allow ourselves to feel what we’re feeling. I don’t think we should bottle that up. That’s certainly not healthy. I think we should give ourselves permission to express the fact that we’re uncomfortable. Look, I think a lot of times when Gen Zers are talking about different things, or you want to maybe start a conversation with them about a topic that you’re a little uncomfortable with. I think you let them know this isn’t a topic that’s necessarily in your wheelhouse. 

Might not know what certain terms mean. Could they help you to better understand that? Again, it’s coming from a place of not being judgmental, being compassionate, having an open heart and mind, but also having the courage to say, “I hear what you’re saying. I don’t really agree with it. I don’t really like it, but I can respect it. I can respect you for being who you are. Let’s please continue to have this conversation. By the way, do you have any questions for me?” One of the things I started doing when I go out and give speeches or do other public appearances years ago, I started this and really it came with the beginnings of my work with Gen Z. 

I say to every audience, whether they’re elementary school students, high school, college, or older adults, my deal with you is you can ask me any question you want. This has turned into an amazing practice for me because when you put that offer out there, especially to elementary school kids, you’re going to get every question and any question possible. I have any question you can imagine. I’ve gotten it. That has been so awesome and actually freeing for me because when you’re up there in that stage and there are hundreds of people in front of you and a question comes and it might be an uncomfortable question, you have no choice but to be honest. 

Also, you have the freedom to say, I’m not really comfortable with that. I’ve never said that yet. I’ve answered all of the questions and I felt great about it. What I have found in doing that is after the speech or whatever it is I’m doing, I will have a number of people come up to me and privately talk to me about whatever the topic of that question was, because it resonated with them. I think that’s why I do that. That’s why I say, “Ask me anything you want.” Because even though they might be curious about me, it has to reflect in some way about something that’s on their mind. 

Now, I’m not saying your listeners need to go out in front of crowds and say, ask me anything, but I think the point is to have that open dialogue. If you’re willing to give honestly, the person you’re talking to, especially if they’re Gen Zer, they recognize that. One of the bazillion things I love about Gen Z the most is they can sniff out BS in a split second. I love that. They’ve helped me to sniff that out. I’ve had multiple conversations with them about just the flood of cliche and virtue-signaling content that is thrown at us every single day, on social media, on TV, and everywhere we are. I think most of it’s well-meaning, well-meaning. 

People will say, “If you’re having a bad day or you’re going through a challenging time, just have hope.” I love the word hope, I love the concept of hope. When you think about it, “I’m having a really bad day.” You get these almost throwaway lines. That has helped me to better frame my messaging and what I’m talking about. I think it’s all about opening those lines of dialogue. It’s okay to be a little uncomfortable and maybe that’s the whole point here. We live in a society where we crave comfort, and so many of us have so many comforts around us that we have forgotten how to be uncomfortable, and we have forgotten the benefits of being a little uncomfortable. 

I think that when it comes to being uncomfortable, we as a society in many ways have learned we can get a pill to alleviate that discomfort, to stop that, to stop this, and forgetting that discomfort is often, I’m not talking about pain, discomfort is often a messenger. It’s simply an invitation to see because I know some of the questions I get with people, sometimes it’s very personal and it’ll feel uncomfortable for a second, but I realize, “I talk about being authentic and genuine and that’s what I model and so I respond authentically, honestly. 

As you get used to moving through the anxiety, moving through the discomfort, it gets easier and easier and easier. Until now I’m the same as you, someone can ask me anything and it might be something rarely where I say, “That’s personal or not,” especially if it’s a client-therapist relationship. There are parts of questions that clinically you don’t want to answer. You go I appreciate that and why are you asking and that sort of thing but going to the discomfort piece, we want to be able to see that discomfort isn’t bad all the time. 

In many cases, it’s a sign that you have the opportunity to grow. I think the other piece that’s important with what you’re talking about is I think when we are older than in a generation older, we tend to not always infantilize the younger generation, but we tend to think, “We’re the grownups, we know more.” We talk in a way that sets that tone. We are afraid, often just because of the way we were raised, we’re afraid to not know because, on some level, we think we should be smarter. We think we should know more. 

We think we should be the mature adult who knows all. The truth is, and I’ve come to know this for a long time, that younger generations remind me of that Louis Armstrong song where he says, “They’ll know much more than I’ll never know or ever know.” With each passing decade, there is so much more knowledge, so much more that is consumed by the younger generation that in truth, a lot of them are a lot smarter and maybe not wiser because they don’t have the years on the planet, but years on the planet doesn’t necessarily translate to being wiser. There is a lot of wisdom and a lot of intelligence in our younger generations that we don’t want to or need to be afraid of. 

How Gen Z Is Stereotyped And The Reality

When it’s wisdom and intelligence and you combine that, that’s a wonderful force to behold. That’s one of the pieces that I love about my Gen Z clients is, that you and I were talking a little bit before we started the podcast, but they are not, and we’re generalizing here. We’re talking about Gen Z as if it is a singular entity but of course, just like any generation, there are many different variations and types of people in the Gen Z population. Many of the Gen Zers I’ve had the privilege of working with are really for their age, they’re quite wise, quite intelligent, and quite kind of a lot of them have a sort of old soul quality that I really appreciate.

I think we have to understand that all of us are teachers and students in every reversing role. Even when that first wave of Gen Zers crossed into my classroom 7, or 8 years ago, I never thought of them as younger, naive, or anything lesser than me. I never thought, “I’m the teacher, they’re the student,” Because very quickly I realized that’s, we’re ever reversing in those roles. When you understand that, it becomes really incredible. Especially now that I’m much older, even that much older than Gen Z-ers. 

The projects I’m doing with them, I spent all of last year working on a project called The Smile Coin Project, which was done with the Dutch manufacturing program at our local public high school here in St. Mary’s, Pennsylvania. Then this past spring, I spent 5 months working with seniors at Clearfield County Career and Technology Center High School on the project, The Brain That Changed the World is Yours. Both of those folks can go to my website, JohnSchlimm.com, and they can see the evolution of those projects but there was never a moment where I went in with those students and thought, “I’m the teacher, I’m the adult.” 

They were my colleagues. They were my absolute colleagues. The thing is, I was going in as an artist and an author and an advocate, but they were coming to me with their skills in drafting and design and how to use equipment that no one ever better let me near, smoke and sparks will be coming out of. To gather what we produced, I think was incredible. Over the last year, those two groups of students and myself, we sent out over 12,000 works of art. There were 4,000 smile coins, and there were about 8,000 or more pieces to the Brain That Changed the World Is Yours project. 

I’m so proud of what we did, but it was really because I was able to go in there and not think, I’m going to teach them something. I was excited. What am I going to learn? Sure, what can I offer? Hopefully, they walked away from the experience having learned something from me. I’ll tell you what, I floated away from those experiences on Cloud9. I was so much richer and much better person than what I started as because of getting to be colleagues with those Zeers. 

I love the image that you really created in that. I’m seeing your journey as a journey we can all have with people in our lives, regardless of their age is being partners. We don’t have to be talking down to anyone. We don’t have to be the authority. Of course, there are times, and we’ll talk about the listener’s question of the day, there are times that it’s important for us to create boundaries and to have guidelines for children to follow, young adults to follow. We all need guidelines that are healthy, safe, and clear. 

Yet, we don’t always have to take that role of being the authoritarian figure, we can sometimes be authoritative, but I think we lose that partnership energy. I love that you said that because that’s how I feel when I’m working with clients or groups I really love to partner with people because when we partner with, we are helping other people embrace their intelligence, their emotional intelligence, their spiritual intelligence, their cognitive intelligence. We’re helping empower them. Where when we take a top-down approach, we sometimes really inadvertently disempower people and sometimes to the point of really harming them.

Let me ask you when we take it back to the listener’s question. This very well-intentioned mom is saying, “I’m not a helicopter parent, I’m doing the very best I can, and being a single mom, being a mom, being a dad, whether you have a partner or not, but especially being a single parent is a difficult enterprise.” It really is. To do it with love, intention, and kindness is really hard in today’s world. What words of wisdom might you give the individual who wrote in, that mom who’s trying so hard but is being told she’s being controlling? 

The first thing I want to say to that mom out there, as well as the other moms and dads, please allow yourself to make mistakes. It’s okay. I think parents especially, and I know teachers do this, they just beat themselves up over mistakes or feel like they have to be perfect. There’s no such thing. As the title of your show says, Imperfect Love. Certainly, no generation has owned their imperfections more than Gen Z. That’s why we love them so much and can learn so much from them. the first lesson, learn to be imperfect and to embrace that and appreciate it and have a good chuckle at yourself every once in a while. I think that’s so important. 

Importance Of Open Communication

I should say I don’t get it. I’m not a parent. I have the greatest respect for parents out there. I don’t know how you do what you do, but in terms of trying to find that perfect formula, I get that because I think we all tried to do that in different ways. I would offer this to her and maybe she’s already done it. I would recommend that she sit down with her child and have a conversation about these things. Maybe she has, but it’d be really interesting to sit down with her daughter and say, “Let’s talk about bedtime. Where are you on that? And let’s talk about where I’m at. Like what do you think is a good time that you should go to sleep? How much sleep do you think you need? What does that even look like?” Have that conversation and maybe together come to some sort of agreement.

I would ask the mom, “Is she getting enough sleep? What does her sleep look like?” I think that could be something she could also share with her daughter because I don’t know a mom or dad out there who is getting enough sleep themselves. I think that’s a great conversation to have. How maybe together can we figure out both of us can have a better night’s sleep? In terms of everything else, have a conversation and come to it again. There’s always the parent-child dynamic, there’s always a teacher-student. Those dynamics will always be there but have those conversations and try to come to some sort of compromise or some sort of understanding where you reach that together. 

Thank you and that’s such sage advice because often we think the old-school parenting is I make the rules you follow them. When a child’s preverbal and very young or even into their early school years some of that makes sense, but research does show us that if you give a child who’s capable of making some decisions, if you give them, for example, an option to offer a consequence for not following a house policy, that often the kids’ consequences are stronger, harder than what the parents would have offered. 

That’s one piece is we often don’t look at having that back-and-forth dialogue because we think as mature adults that we should set all of the rules and all of the consequences. I love the piece that you’re also talking about, about co-creating the family agreements. I’m thinking about my most recent book, The Joy of Imperfect Love, where I talk about across all relationships, parent-child, lovers, work, best friends, friendships, and whatever, we have agreements. Are the agreements by default and therefore just implicit? Or are they co-created agreements that are explicit? 

Role Models And Screen Time

Where we sit down with others or with one other and say, “This is what works for me. Tell me what would work for you. We’re in this relationship together. Let’s co-create, let’s negotiate an agreement that feels right.” I think that that’s another really important thing that you said, sit down, have the conversation, and do the co-creating. The other really important topic piece of what you brought up is how important it is for us to realize that sometimes we as role models, for as you were talking about the mother getting enough sleep, research shows this as well. 

People are all in an uproar about kids, phone use, and social media use. Sometimes, and in many cases, the parents are not modeling healthy phone use or healthy computer use. Here it’s that old paradigm of do as I say, not as I do. That doesn’t work anymore. It just doesn’t work because kids are very smart, they’re very outspoken, and when we are not modeling a behavior that we expect a child to follow, it won’t feel right and they won’t want to follow it. What do you think?

I totally agree. A couple of things, in terms of our cell phones and the screens that we’re constantly on, every time I’m talking with a group of older adults, that question comes up. What do you think of social media? What do you think of all the screens that the Gen Zers are all glued to? I throw the question back to them and I say, “Before we talk about that, I want you all to think about your relationship to the screens in your lives.” You can just see everyone in the audience, “Oh.” They suddenly realize that this isn’t just they’re obsessed, that group over there, the Ziers are all in the. 

Understanding And Addressing Screen Use

We all spend too much time on our screens. To all of our benefit to think about our own relationship to screens, sort of look at what are we doing on screen and maybe how do we manage that better before we start pointing the finger. I am also on that topic. Then I’m going to go back to sleep because I have an interesting story on sleep. It’s one of my favorite topics now when it comes to Ziers. The other thing when it comes to social media, I will say to older adults, have you asked Ziers what they’re doing on their phones or iPads or computers? 

We assume, “They’re like rotting their brains, playing video games or just flipping through social media or whatever.” That’s not always the case. More often than not, this was a battle I picked in, because I’ve learned to pick my battles. In the classroom, when students would be on their phones or have their laptops flipped open in front of me, I wouldn’t make an issue out of that. Now I was not teaching chemistry, so there’s nothing that can go boom if you’re not exactly paying attention. That’s okay, I could get away with that but more often than not, what I found, and I turned it into a little bit of an experiment. 

If someone was on their phone and we were having a discussion, I’d call on them without missing a beat, they’d answer the question. Really great multitasking skills. Also what I learned is a lot of times they were on their phones researching whatever topic we were talking about so that they would have the latest information or something new to contribute to the conversation. We cannot always assume what they’re doing on their screen. I would hope that when people see me out on my phone, people aren’t assuming what I’m doing on my phone. 

Of course, most of the time I am going through my social media and checking emails. Ask them, if you see a Gen Zier sit down, whether it’s your kid or “What are you doing on your phone?” Use that as a discussion point. Now back to the topic of sleep. Zier’s really put this on my radar as well. One semester I was teaching a 1:00 PM in the afternoon class. A student didn’t show up for class and the next class he came and said, “I’m so sorry for missing your class. I overslept.” I’m like, “Why? The class started.” I didn’t get mad. I was curious. I’m like, “You overslept?” 

He’s like, “I was up all night.” Again, we can make assumptions. “What are they up all night doing?” When I asked them the question. I don’t often get over playing video games, goofing off, or partying. I’m doing homework. I’m working on a research paper, or I’m just enjoying some downtime that I didn’t get because I had a busy day. Again, ask but in my book, What Would Gen Z Do? I have a whole chapter on this because I was so amused by it. The story is repeated because Gen Zers, especially teenagers and college-age students, they really don’t sleep at night. For whatever reason, they love being up. 

I put out this suggestion to colleges and universities across the country to maybe consider teaching, offering a 2:00 AM class. I’m like, I bet it will be the most popular class on your campus and I even volunteered to go and teach it, wherever that might be. No one has taken me up on this offer yet, but what it really represented is, that we’ve got to get away from this old style of, “We’re up here and we’re reaching down and we’re going to drag them, especially in education, screaming and kicking up.”

No, we’ve got to meet them where they are, just like we need to meet each other where we are and help each other rise from there. I’d be really curious if a university or college took me up on that suggestion, and offered a class at two in the morning. I can almost guarantee it would be the most well-attended class on the campus because whoever thought an 8:00 AM class on campus was a good idea, even 30, 40 years ago, horrible idea. 

We do have some old paradigms that don’t necessarily work and a lot of schools are shifting, especially for young kids. They’re shifting starting start times a little bit later because of the stress. It’s stress that moms and dads feel as well as getting those kids out the door up ready for school. I also think that when it comes to sleep time looking at this mom’s question it’s about well talking to her daughter. As you said, how much sleep do you need? Looking, is she a natural night owl? Is she a natural early bird? What’s most important is that somebody is getting good sleep and that whatever their sleep patterns are, there are a few rare people who only need 4 or 5 hours of sleep a night, but that’s very rare. 

Sleep Patterns And Individual Needs

Most people need eight hours of sleep a night and kids need often a lot more. Looking at saying, “Wait a second, what works for you? What’s healthy?” I think that’s the part of the conversation. We’re having a conversation with a kid saying, “How are you feeling in the mornings? You look pretty tired. What can we do to create better sleep habits?” If they’re up texting all night long so that they’re not ready for ninth-grade class in the morning, we might need to do some negotiating in order to create patterns that allow that individual to be their best selves, to take in school, to not feel depressed or grumpy throughout the day, to be able to learn. I think again, it’s really looking at the individual, isn’t it? 

It really is. I would also say to that mom that opening the conversation about things like sleep or time spent on the screens. What that’s going to do is, later on, open up the dialogue on more serious topics. If there does come a point where her daughter is having a mental health issue, or some other issue, a relationship issue, she’s going to be so much more comfortable and willing to share that with her mom because she’s going to know she can come to her mom and her mom is not going to judge, she’s going to listen, she’s going to offer what help and advice she can, and she’s going to be willing to partner in helping her daughter through whatever that is. Building those smaller conversations now is going to lead to such amazing bigger conversations later on. 

I love that we’re back to the piece about the conversation because, in every relationship, we forget that even if somebody is seven years old, whether they’re 7, 37, or 77. People want to feel respected. People want to feel seen. When we look at attachment theory, it’s all about looking at someone and seeing them. Yes, with our eyes, which is one of the reasons that we want to do the best we can to get our gaze away from phones and computers and television and look at the people in our lives, and have conversations. I can envision with your wisdom in the background, this mom sitting down with her daughter and saying, “Honey, I’m concerned about your grades. 

I’m seeing C’s here and A’s here and one D over here. Not saying that that’s what’s happening, but let’s imagine that. Could you tell me what’s going on?” The daughter might say, “I’m doing well in these subjects because I’m interested and I’m doing terrible over here in D, math because my teacher told me I’m stupid and I’ll never amount to anything. Imagine that.” Just right there, we can say, “You probably would believe because of what you do.” 

How many clients and non-clients have told me that it was a comment like that made by a teacher that was intended to help the kid, I don’t know if, was intended to motivate them or what, but really changed the way they perceived themselves, that, “I must be stupid in math, or I’ll never get it in English.” If we’re curious as parents, and curious, we can often find out some of these messages, both the healthy and the toxic, that are in our kiddo’s minds, that have been planted there by other people, and sometimes by us. 

We didn’t even realize we did it when the child would say, “Mom, don’t you remember you told me this, that I would never be good at drawing?” I’m like, “What?” When we’re curious and not defensive, and I think that’s another important skill for all of us, and especially parents, that if a kid is saying? Mom, you’re controlling.” It doesn’t have to be, “No, I’m not controlling.” It can be, “Could you tell me more about what I’m doing that feels controlling to you?” What do you think?

I think when a child would say that to you, you need to take a few moments or hours to really contemplate and think about that yourself. Am I being controlling? Just for the sake of it, even if I don’t think I’m controlling, let’s say that I am, where would that have come from? I think you start unpacking yourself and that can only be good. It goes back to being honest and that parent could then go to that child and say, “I gave it some thought and I think I can be controlling, and here’s maybe some of the reasons why when I was growing up, my parents were very controlling, or whatever that is.” 

Again, it’s about being honest and authentic. I think it’s also worth noting here that coming up very quickly now behind Gen Z, we have a Gen Alpha. The Gen Alpha, they’re coming, and I’m sure many of the listeners you have have little alphas running all around. They’re like about 11 years old at the oldest and on down. I already have fallen in love with this generation. I think they’re incredible, but I’m already seeing the stereotypes and the stigmas of they’re even worse than the Ziers and they’re really glued to their screens. I didn’t experiment. I call them experiments. 

They’re really not. I’m not a scientist. This little four-year-old, this was a couple of years ago, son of some friends of mine. He’s an alpha. We were out in the backyard, having fun, running around, climbing trees, going to whatever imaginary land he wanted. It was so fun. A half hour later we’re inside and he’s on, and he’s on his iPad. I’m sitting on the couch next to him and I said, “Owen.” He never broke. He’s like right there. I poked him because I was really curious. Never broke his concentration. 

Now I could have been horrified. I could have run around screaming like my hair was caught on fire, that he was rotting his brain. I was more fascinated by the level of concentration I was seeing, the level of commitment to whatever he was doing. Now, I’m not saying it’s all good, but I’m certainly saying it’s not all bad. I hope we have some researchers out there who are looking at the positive aspects of that level of concentration and commitment to something because we’re certainly seeing that in the video game world, which people were running around with their hair on fire about how awful that was. 

Research is now showing us that from these games, young people, they’re learning social-emotional skills, communication skills, creative type skills, and so many different skills that major corporations are actually looking for. They’re actually recruiting gamers. The US military recruiting gamers. I’m not a gamer. I always tell young people, if you want to beat someone every time ask me to play, but I’ve certainly become a champion for them because I see there’s some real benefits. 

To really drive home that point, especially about the alpha is last summer I was invited to host the opening for a library summer reading program. I thought, what can I do? It was going to mostly be like kids like six and under. I decided to demonstrate just how incredible these kids are, and it’s not all about the screens. I put on a white t-shirt and blue jeans, I stood in the middle of a parking lot, and I did a performance art piece called, The Kids Are Cool. They had any color of paint they wanted and I gave them permission to paint me. 

The Imagination Generation

I’m like the only request, please stay below the neck. I still want my glasses. Of course, there’s always the one little mischievous kid who’s usually my favorite, came up with a paintbrush. I loved it. Again, if you go to my website, JohnSchlimm.com, you’ll see the pictures from that event. The piece was called, The Kids Are Cool. Like saying, “The kids are cool. It’s okay. There are issues and we’ll deal with them, but overall the kids are cool.” They know how to create in ways that we cannot even fathom yet. I find Gen Alpha kind of a boring title. 

I’ve really nicknamed that generation the imagination generation because I see their level of imagination as something that we cannot even fathom. Rather than like screaming and carrying on about the technology and all this other stuff. Let’s like learn a little bit. Let’s sit down and have conversations. I mean, I’ve sat down with four-year-olds and had conversations. I’ve sat down with seven-year-olds. Amazing conversations. Sometimes you forget how old they are and you certainly forget how old you are. 

Thank you. John, I’m so appreciative of all of your insights and the magic you bring with you. I 100% agree that we need to put our judgment aside and get curious and maybe get a little playful because it never hurts us to play. It never hurts us to put our judgment aside. When we see a kiddo with their face glued to a screen instead of judging maybe be curious about what they’re looking at and have a conversation about it. The research is out there on too much screen time. 

We don’t need to go into that but what we can do is circle back to the mom as the mom’s question, as we draw to a close today and say, “Mom, you’re doing a good job. Mom, you are concerned.” Maybe have some more conversations with your daughter. Maybe ask her what control looks like to her, feels like to her. Maybe co-create some house rules with her so that you can both get on the same page. She has the right as the mom to have boundaries and guidelines, but it might make the relationship a lot more fun if there’s some co-creating in there. What do you think? Sounds like a plan?

The only thing I would add to that is Mom, put yourself on the list. Moms and dads do not put themselves on the list. Make sure, at least for a few minutes every day, you’re just taking care of yourself. Whatever that, a walk, a nap, a soak bath. I’m sure some of the moms and dads are like, soak bath, whatever that is, give yourself that 10 or 15 minutes. Put yourself on the list because the healthier you are, the happier and healthier the kids will be. 

Thank you for that critical point because that too is modeling for the kids in your life. I deserve self-care. I deserve time for a walk. I deserve time to meditate or garden or read a book or sit in a corner and just be whatever that is. That yes, healthy self-care for parents. Such an important role and one that I am so proud of parents because it’s a difficult time to parent. John, you are amazing and wonderful and so much fun. Where can our listeners find you? 

They can find me at my website, JohnSchlimm.com. All my social media links are there. I love connecting with people over social media. I look forward to meeting with your listeners. 

Thank you, dear John, and to our listeners. Thank you for sharing this wonderful, fun-filled journey with us. This is Imperfect Love.

Important Links:

• John Schlimm
• The Brain That Changed the World is Yours
• The Smile Coin 
• What Would Gen Z Do? 
• The Kids Are Cool
• https://johnschlimm.com/category/blog/
• https://johnschlimm.com/book_tags/book/
• https://johnschlimm.com/the-brain-that-changed-the-world-is-yours-first-edition-at-clearfield-county-career-technology-center-high-school/
• www.Facebook.com/JohnSchlimm 
• The Joy of Imperfect Love
• https://www.drcarlamanly.com/

About John Schlimm

John Schlimm is a Harvard-trained educator, artist, advocate, and international award-winning author of twenty-seven books, including What Would Gen-Z Do?: Everything You Don’t Know About Gen-Z But Should and The Star Jumped Over the Moon.