Are you feeling stuck in a dead-end relationship? Do you want more in your romantic life but are afraid to let go of what you have? From a lack of sex or emotional intimacy to ongoing conflict, issues often arise in relationships that leave one or both partners feeling distressed. And in my work with individuals and couples, I’ve found that many people can’t decide if it’s best to leave a romantic relationship or stay in it for the long haul. It’s no easy matter. And, the truth is, no one can tell you what path you should take; the decision–as hard as it might be–is ultimately up to you.
In this episode, I’m joined by an international relationship and intimacy coach Ken Blackman who will help us dive deep into knowing when you might want to commit fully–or when you might want to let go. Topics discussed include sexual intimacy, infidelity, sex, connection, emotional connection, love, marriage, dating, love life, agreements, conflict, red flags, dealbreakers, divorce, commitment, betrayal, office romance, emotional infidelity, infidelity, narcissism, NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, abusive relationships, gaslighting, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, spiritual abuse, communication, meditation, and mindfulness.
Please note that this episode contains sensitive material; listener discretion is advised.
Emergency Assistance Note: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling “911” or “988” (Suicide and Crisis Hotline). Additional links are in the show notes.
https://www.nami.org/support-education/nami-helpline/
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Books by Dr. Carla Manly:
Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly
Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend
The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships
Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:
Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarlamanly/
Twitter/X: https://www.twitter.com/drcarlamanly/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drcarlamanly
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-marie-manly-8682362b/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.carlamariemanly8543
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr_carla_manly
Connect with Ken Blackman:
Website: https://kenblackman.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kenblackmancoach/
Twitter/X: https://x.com/KenBlackman
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KenBlackmanPersonal
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenblackman/
Medium: https://medium.com/straight-talkers
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Listen to the podcast here
Should I Stay or Should I Go? How to Let Go of–or Embrace–a Romantic Relationship with Expert Ken Blackman
How to Craft the Love Relationship of Your Dreams
Are you feeling stuck in a dead-end relationship? Do you want more in your romantic life but are afraid to let go of what you have? In my work with individuals and couples, I have found that many people can’t decide if it’s best to leave a romantic relationship or stay in it for the long haul. It’s no easy matter, and the truth is no one can tell you what path you should take. The decision, as hard as it might be, is ultimately up to you.
I’m joined by an international relationship coach who will help us dive deep into knowing when you might want to commit fully or when you might want to let go. We’ll focus on this reader’s real-life question. “I’m confused about my marriage. I have been with my wife for 8 years, and married for 4, but we are having a boring friendship type of love. I keep fantasizing about dating. I want fun and passion again. I have been flirting with someone at work, and it’s on the verge of something more. I don’t know if to get a divorce or if to try to make it work,” and with that issue as the focus of this episode, I’m Dr. Carla Marie Manly, and this is Imperfect Love.
I’m joined by a very special guest, Ken Blackman, who will be sharing his expertise on relationships, intimacy, and the No Regrets program for couples. Welcome to the show, Ken. It’s such a pleasure to have you with us.
It’s such a pleasure to be here, and that question gives me so many different thoughts. Beautiful jumping-off point.
I’m excited to dive into it with you, but before we do that, can you tell our readers a little bit about what makes you, you?
I will say that our identity is something that we wear like a garment. To say what makes me is the inner self, that is the witness and the experience, but through my life, I acquired an identity, which these days looks like someone who has been doing relationship coaching for many years now, who believes deeply in the power of connection as a nutrient that all of us are hungry for and as the basis of the best relationships. That’s a good starting point for the iceberg of who I might be.
That’s a very beautiful starting point, and I appreciate the piece you said about being a witness, because, readers, for those of you who might not be familiar with that idea, I will give you my perspective, and then Ken, I will ask yours but I find that sometimes being the witness is both the best part of life because it allows us to be objective about ourselves and what’s happening in our lives. Sometimes it’s the most difficult part to step out of the self, out of our wants and our needs and our yearning and our hurts and our wounds and be able. It’s a very wonderful place to be, but also a very difficult place to get to sometimes. What’s your perspective on that?
It’s something that experienced meditators talk about, where they talk about this idea that you are not your thoughts, and it is so easy to identify with our thoughts. How could that not be me? I’m the one who’s thinking these thoughts, and yet, if you spend some time meditating, what you start to discover is that all these thoughts are coming in. You didn’t create them, you didn’t choose them. They are flowing in your mind.
All those thoughts are like a delegated task. I have this committee that sends me a bunch of thoughts. I have a committee that evaluates and judges everything and tells me what my emotions are my feelings and my opinions about it. I have a delegated, outsourced committee that is perceiving the world and using my five senses, and then there’s me at the center.
There aren’t any of those things that are simply experiencing the world, and it is so hard to get to that place, and yet, if you can get to that place, you discover that you are separate from all of that, and there’s something very liberating about it. You can jump back in and love the things you love and hate the things you hate and be super invested in everything and be super passionate, but if you know how to get to that place, that is the neutral experiencer of everything that’s happening, it’s a very powerful place to be able to have access to when you need it.
I am there with you on that. Among other things, I’m a meditation leader, and I can tell you, readers, I agree with Ken. If we can get into that space, if you are not used to meditating or if what Ken is saying sounds very unfamiliar, imagine for a moment sitting on a park bench or at the seashore and seeing a thought that is troubling you, instead of attaching to it or holding onto it.
Imagine if you can let it float by like a cloud in the sky. That is one of the biggest arts of meditation, letting those thoughts we want to grab onto when we want to tease them apart but if we can learn to let them float by, as we would a cloud in the sky. I’m with you. That allows us to become that witness because we witness the cloud going by. We don’t try and chase it or hold onto it or push it away. We let it move on.
I love this as a beginning to the topic now, because it sounds like the reader is having all of these thoughts, all of these thoughts about being married to this individual and it’s a boring friendship, not a passionate love relationship, and so it sounds as if this person is feeling a bit stuck or cramped, and they are longing for passion and something more. A friendship isn’t enough, and I’m not judging it, but I’m saying if we back up and watch all the thoughts that must be in this person’s mind, all of these thoughts.
They are big thoughts and they are leading this person to take action. The person is taking action by flirting with somebody at work, and then flirting, it’s on that precipice. It sounds as if, “It’s about ready to move to something else.” I don’t know what that is. If it’s a deeper emotional affair, it sounds like it might be that. It might move into a full-fledged physical affair, but then they are saying, “Should I stay or should I go? Should I get a divorce, or do I try to make this work?”
With that as the foundation, and you as a relationship coach, and me as Dr. Carla, relationship person, anxiety person, all of those hats I wear. I can say this isn’t the first time I have heard this story. It is an age-old human story. We humans are imperfect, and our thoughts and feelings can surely sometimes lead the way. What do you have to say about this particular question?
Relationship Coaching Framework
First of all, there’s no way that I can tell you what to do. Even when I’m working with people who may be 2, 3, or 5 people who are describing the same thing there still needs to be a lot of depth and inquiry and discussion before they know what’s right for them. I want to start by saying that. That said, there are a few things that I can maybe suggest or even talk about what the process would be to come to an answer about this. Let me start there. I said this in the beginning, but I believe that in the short-run relationships, we have our list of things we want, and we have our list of qualities that we are looking for, especially when we are dating. We have these hard “nos” and all these lists of, “Here’s the things that are true about me,” and all these lists.
All of those lists are our best guesses as to what’s going to give us the experience of a deep connection with another human being. That’s the goal, and all of these lists of these qualities or these things are our best guesses as to how to have that experience with another human being. I also believe that I always come back to what are the concrete experiences that I want to have. When I was growing up way back in the 1970s, there was this song, it was called the Pina Colada song. That wasn’t the actual name of it, but it was this story about this guy who’s unhappy in his relationship. He puts an ad in the want ads, which used to be a thing that you could do.
It was an ad in the newspaper, and he said, “If you like pina coladas, if you like getting caught in the rain.” He made this list of experiences, like experiences that he wanted to have, and I think that’s the best approach. Good for you the reader who submitted this question for having something that awakened you to something more that you want to be experiencing.
I take it that your question is, “Can I have something more with my wife of all these years where we have gotten into this rut, and I had this experience that woke me up to, I want more than what we are having?” Now you are in this quandary to return to this song. What happened? He put that ad in the paper, it was this list of experiences. “Do you like making love at midnight?” Do you like all these wonderful experiences? Then he got a reply, and he was like, “Great, somebody wants to have these experiences.”
He meets this other person who responded to his ad, and it’s his girlfriend. It’s the woman that he’s been with the whole time who says, “I never knew you wanted these kinds of experiences.” What might be a good place to start, is to say to your wife, “I want to experience more, and I would like to experience more with you. Is that something you are interested in? Is that something you want to experience? I want to wake up in the morning snuggling. I want to have delicious, slow lovemaking with you. I want to experience life with you. I want to stand on the beach and watch the sunset.” There are all these experiences that we are not having anymore. That would be a good place to start. I will pause there. I have more thoughts, but I want to pause and see what thoughts you have about what I have said so far.
That’s a beautiful approach. It’s interesting that you are talking about lists because many times, when our thoughts, as pesky as they are, and even when we are trying to let them float by, sometimes we do want to take those thoughts and put them down on paper and say, “These are the experiences I want.” I’m with you, sometimes I often hear one partner saying. It’s usually one partner saying, “I’m not getting the amount of sexual connection I want. I’m not getting that. I’m not getting the adventure I want. I’m not getting the fun I want. Our lives have become humdrum and dull. They are all about the kids, or they are all about the work, or they are all about whatever it is.”
If we slow it down In my third book, Date Smart, I talk about the importance of creating these lists not just of what we want, which can include these experiences, but of what we have to offer. Often, if we get stuck on “I want, I want, I want,” we forget some of those are concepts that we may not want in real life, or maybe there are things, there are more dreams than actualities but also, sometimes we don’t slow down to think, “This is what I have to offer.” I have to offer a warm heart. I have to offer an adventurous spirit. I have to offer the interest in going to different classes or in learning, but whatever it might be.
When we slow it down, as you are saying, to create lists, we want to be careful because often people get stuck in lists that are all about physicality. “I want somebody who has brown eyes and brown hair, and they are this tall,” and that becomes the list. “They are this fit, and they make this much money,” but we need so much more than that.
As you are saying, we want someone who wants to share experiences because those are a huge part of life, the experience of raising kids, of having a dog, of gardening together, of having sexual intimacy, traversing trails together through life whatever it is. I agree with you, if we start with these lists, not only and we do an internal inventory of what we have to offer and also what we are asking the other person, we can learn an awful lot about what that person might bring us like in your song. That person is bringing a lot of the experiences that this individual wanted that were right there. Right there, they had never explored it.
I’m a big believer, so kudos to you. I love point number one, creating the list. I have a feeling that what you are asking us to look at, Ken, is not “Should I stay or should I go?” Before we even get there, let’s do some self-reflection. Let’s do some evaluation so that when we get to that choice, we feel as though we have made a wise choice rather than one that’s ruled by passion I’m not saying passion’s bad, but let’s say this guy says, “Tomorrow I’m going to divorce my wife, I’m going to go and leave for this person in the office,” and once they get to know the person, it’s like, “That was just an illusion. Very short-lived,” because that person underneath is not at all who I thought they were, and that happens so frequently. Continue, please.
Co-Creating Relationships Mindfully
You bring up such a good point because this has to be co-created. If you live your life alone, the world is your oyster. You can have all kinds of experiences, there’s so much you can do, there’s so much you can experience, and then there’s this piece around co-experiencing with another human being, having a connection with another human being. That’s the one thing that you need another human being in order to have that experience.
Relationships have to be co-created. As you say, as an invitation, not a demand. Like, “I want this and this and this and this,” but as an invitation, “This is what sounds like a wonderful life, relationship, and experience to me. I want to hear what sounds wonderful to you. What would be delicious for you? What is it that you want to be experiencing that we are not experiencing?”
That’s such an important question, that this has to be co-created. It’s not a tug of war here, two people putting their heads together to create a vision and a life that’s better than either one of them could come up with by themselves. Often in a relationship that’s reached a point of neutrality or friendship or like the spark is gone and they are going through the motions, they are polite and they are friendly with each other, but something is missing. Often, the reason that has happened is that someone had an issue and they didn’t get it resolved and they shut down. One of the questions I would ask is, how did we get to this place? Do you remember the place where you gave up or shut down? What issue was so important to you? I want to know what issue was so important to you that we never got all the way through, that we never resolved, and that you gave up. Whatever that is, I want to resolve it.
Sometimes, unresolved issues linger for years, but when you finally address and resolve them, everything seems to align. It can reignite your connection and make you feel drawn to that person all over again Share on X
What I find in my practice is that sometimes there’s been something for years and you go back and you go back, and then if you can resolve that thing, all of a sudden things light up. You are turned on to the person again. Usually, when a couple has gotten to that place, it’s not the boredom. There was a moment when something didn’t get resolved, or they were fighting about something and someone said, “This is too much work. This person’s never going to hear me, they are never going to listen to me. They don’t care about what I care about. They are not paying attention,” and they give up but a part of them closes down and shuts down, and then they are polite with each other, they are friendly with each other, but the spark is gone.
Investing Effort To Maintain Passion
Let’s take a pause. You have three things that I want to get a little bit granular on. First is the idea, when you are talking about co-creating relationships. I am such a fan of that and in my fourth book, The Joy of Imperfect Love, I talk about the importance of co-creating mindfully because our relationships, any relationship we are in, are ultimately co-created.
There’s another person, there’s a back-and-forth. Are we doing it by default? Are passive selves coming out, or are difficult parts coming out? We are creating agreements the whole way through life, implicitly or explicitly. Who does the laundry? Who gets angry? Who shuts down? What’s happening? When we slow it down, as you are saying, and do a mindful co-creation, it’s never too late to do that to say, “This is the relationship I want. I want loving, I want kindness. Can we work together?”
If you want love and kindness, can we work together to create more patterns that are loving and kind? I love that you brought that up, the co-creation because if we are going to co-create a relationship, let’s co-create it mindfully. Even if we are in the thick of things already, we can shift gears and become more mindful.
The second thing that you were talking about that I also appreciate was that when we are looking at a relationship and we are stuck, or it’s now just “friendship.” I agree that sometimes that’s created by resentments, which will be 0.3, but I also think that sometimes that friendship and I’m not saying it’s a bad thing it’s because people stop putting in the effort they did when they were dating. They may be more like best friends. It’s not that that’s bad, but they have lost the oomph, they have lost some of the raciness and the passion and the date nights.
Sometimes it’s that where there truly aren’t any resentments, but it’s more that it’s gotten to this groove and this path of least resistance where we are not trying and I hear it from couples all the time. “If he could only treat me the way he treated me when we were dating, I don’t know where that guy went.” It can be any gender. It’s not one or the other. It’s not cisgender but one partner is saying, “My lover used to dress up and put on this lingerie or play with this and do that, and now they don’t even bother.” That’s something that can be addressed.
Something that often happens is that people get tired and decide not to invest in sexual energy anymore, and the little niceties, whatever that looks like. Then your other piece, which I appreciate, the piece about unresolved issues that can fracture any relationship, romantic, friendship, or family goes back to your words about becoming the witness.
Go back if you think that this is something that you’re carrying resentments or your partner is. Go back and, without judgment, find that space as the witness, as the observer. Where were there times when your partner let you down or you let your partner down, and it was too much work or too scary to resolve the issue? You put it in what I call the backpack. We keep throwing things in the backpack of the relationship, and then the backpack gets heavier. All of a sudden we want to throw the backpack off. We don’t want that relationship anymore.
Whereas sometimes, if we put that backpack down for a bit and make the effort to clean out all those rocks and pebbles, all those resentments, we can, as you said, all of a sudden create the spark of, “I like you again. I love you again. Now you are sexy and you are fun because I don’t have all of this field of resentment between us.” I love that idea that you brought up about clearing things out because it’s vital for any healthy, truly connected relationship, and there’s an art to that. There is. An ongoing practice of keeping that backpack clean. You are giving us such great information. Let’s continue.
I’m so glad that we are on the same page on so many of these things. It’s wonderful.
In truly unhealthy relationships, where one partner engages in constant abuse—be it emotional, physical, financial, or spiritual—it’s often necessary to take a significant step back. Share on XIt is. Kindred spirits. I can tell you are a very gifted relationship coach because some people are of the mind, “Let’s throw the relationship off and move on. It’s not working,” but often not always especially if a relationship is truly unhealthy. If one partner is and I don’t think what you and I are talking about here is that there’s a partner where there’s abuse, constant gaslighting, all of these emotional abuse, physical abuse, financial abuse, spiritual abuse, any of these types of abuse.
Often you have to take a huge step away from the relationship, a separation at least, in order for that relationship to have any chance of healing because trying to heal within the confines of an abusive relationship, you get one breath of fresh air and then the whack-a-mole comes down and you are hit underwater again.
Recognizing And Addressing Intractable Personality Issues
Often, on that note, someone has personality adaptations they are not going to change, and that is something to be aware of. Sometimes you’d be surprised how often that accusation is made when it isn’t true, but sometimes it is true. This person is simply not going to change. They have diagnosable disorders. Maybe they haven’t been to a therapist but they have a diagnosable disorder that isn’t going to change, and if they come to coaching, it will show up because you can see that they are not coachable. Like the conversation, they cannot change, and so that’s something to be aware of too but I want to say, I want to emphasize that that is the exception. That’s not typical. That’s not the norm.
What Ken said is so important because there are some mental health disorders that are very intractable. One is NPD Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It is very resistant to change, but it doesn’t mean that if that person has a light bulb going on in their mind and wants to change, that is the governing factor in some of those more intractable personality disorders. If somebody somehow gets that light on in their brains, in their hearts, and they say, “I want,” or in their minds, in their hearts, and they say, “I want to change, I can see this.” Unfortunately, sometimes the very nature of those particular disorders is that that light doesn’t go on because they are otherwise engaged sometimes in self-absorption or whatever it is but anyway, I agree with that. Yet there are many instances where someone does want to evolve into being a better person.
That’s the key. When you have someone who says and I say that all the time. Life changes, as people are always saying, “I shouldn’t have to change in my relationship. I shouldn’t make my partner change. They shouldn’t make me change.” My response is, we change in life one way or another. Life changes by default, or if somebody’s asking us to create a change that makes us a better, kinder, more wonderful human being, why not? Why wouldn’t we want to evolve mindfully in a way that allows more parts, more loving parts of the self to show up? Sure, it’s hard work, but in my mind, it’s some of the best, most challenging, and most fun, some of the funnest work that we will ever do if we have the right mindset.
I will say that, on a personal note. I have learned so much from my wife on this topic because she’s studied personality adaptation. She’s worked alongside experts who work with people who struggle with this. In an earlier life, she herself suffered and struggled with narcissistic personality disorder. She is now a loving, compassionate, and empathetic human being who I adore and who I have never had a better relationship with but it was her choice to make that change.
Narcissistic personality disorder is incredibly difficult to treat because individuals with the disorder typically see no issue with their behavior. They are content with who they are and lack any desire or motivation to change. Share on XOne of the things that I have heard again and again is that the reason why narcissistic personality disorder is so hard to treat is because they don’t think that there’s anything wrong. They like the way they are. They are happy with the way that they are. They have no desire to change. First and foremost, someone who struggles with that has to want to be different, and they have to do the work of going to therapy to make a change with themself. It’s hard work, but the biggest barrier is that they have no desire to be any different than the way that they are. That is the biggest thing that makes NPD difficult to treat.
Readers, if you’ve read some of my episodes, you’ll see me say this about NPD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder. When we look at the myth which leads us to the term narcissist it was an ancient mythology where Narcissus was looking in the pool of water and became so entranced with his image that he didn’t care that there was a nymph who loved him or a man who loved him.
He only cared about the beauty of his reflection in his world, and he ultimately died because he withered away to nothing from only caring about the image in the pool, his reflection. When we look at that, it’s exactly what Ken is saying NPDs, are in their world, mesmerized by all of the control and all of the thinking about the self and the self-absorption.
The other people around them, are just part of the external, nothing that they have to tend to or care about because their primary focus is that image, that self-reflection. It’s a very lonely way to live, but you are right. I don’t want to spend too much time on NPD, but there you have that piece. I will join you on that. It is one of the most, and this gets right to the reader’s question again, that if there is a mutual desire, mutual being the operative word, to shift a relationship, then there’s great potential, I find. If there’s one person whether it’s a person with NPD or alcoholism or they simply don’t want the relationship anymore that’s going to be a difficult uphill battle. Very difficult but if you have two people who want to create something bigger, more passionate, more adventurous, more luscious whatever that might be, the sky’s the limit.
Shift In Focus For Future Work
I’m so glad we are talking about this because this is going to be the focus of my work moving forward in the coming year and probably in the years after that. I have been doing this work full-time for many years, and for the first decade or so 10, 15 years my primary focus was what happens in the bedroom. How can people have a fantastic, gourmet sex life? Then the second decade or so has been focused on how to have a great relationship, how to have a healthy, long-lasting, fulfilling, resilient relationship.
That’s built from the uniqueness of the two people that are doing this but mostly, I have been working with couples who are already committed. They are not that questioning the relationship state they are committed to. They know that they want this to work. They may have big problems, but what’s nice about that is that I can tell them, “This is the difficult work that you are going to need to do in order to get into the promised land. Here’s the barbed wire that’s in the way of you getting into the garden.”
They have skin in the game because they want this relationship to work. They will do that difficult work to make the relationship great. That said, moving forward, I am focusing on couples who maybe have been together for 1 to 5 years and they haven’t committed yet. Maybe one of them is ambivalent. Maybe one of them is not sure if this is the right person, or they are not sure if they are ready to commit to one person or like, “Are these problems that we have in the relationship red flags or resolvable? How do I know that I’m going to be in love with this person 10, 20 years from now?”
Any of those types of questions that are keeping one person, maybe both of them, maybe one person from being able to say, “I’m fully in.” That is the focus of my work going forward, and I’m super excited about it. There are lots of different approaches. Some people do well with a spreadsheet of pros and cons. Some people need a deep conversation that’s exploratory until their light bulb goes off. Some people need help knowing what it is that they are feeling. Some people need some expertise in looking at the relationship and saying, “Here’s what you guys would need to change. Here’s the work you would need to do.” There are a lot of different versions of this one issue, but that’s going to be my focus moving forward.
Tailored Approaches To Relationship Work
It’s a tremendous focus because it sounds as if not only do you not have a one-size-fits-all approach. As you said, some clients do great with a spreadsheet, some do great with a pros and cons list, some do great with free association journaling, some do great with a combination of all of them, and some want a self-help book to use as a companion, whatever it is.
Some want to meet with a therapist and do it in a therapy room where there’s heart-to-heart communication and they can do role plays and work on it in real time, and they all want to do coaching with a big room full of people who are all in the same boat or do retreats and that’s fabulous. If we take it back to our readers’ question, is that what you are saying is perhaps do some inner work? Take from these various areas do some spreadsheets of pros and cons, do some self-reflection, do some meditation, go see a therapist, and do some work so that you are resolving whatever it is.
Bringing the partner into the conversation, I would imagine. That’s what I would want to do. I would want this individual to speak with the partner. If they were my solo client, I’d be saying, “Have you talked to your partner about this? Have you given them an opportunity?” Maybe they are hungry, and going back to your Pina Colada song, maybe they are hungry for exactly what you are. We don’t know this until we have a conversation. Maybe you need a relationship therapist to help you with that.
I remember a couple I worked with. They created coffee date Sundays and they both liked donuts. They started having conversations every Sunday morning. They’d get donuts, sit down, and have conversations only about their relationship. Then they started reading a relationship book together, and then they started doing some of the relationship exercises that were in the book. They are still married. I’m not saying it’s all rainbows and sunshine, but that is one way to do it. To throw everything away I’m not telling this reader what to do, but I am saying that sometimes, if you don’t resolve your issues in a relationship, they do have a tendency to pop up in the next relationship. What do you think about that?
I agree with everything you said, and I love the idea of having a coffee date where we are going to talk about the relationship, share our likes and dislikes, discuss what we want next, and read a book together on some possibilities. I love that idea.
Investing In A Relationship As A Priority
It’s such a foreign concept to people. My platform, I look, and I say, “Look how much we invest in work, how much we invest in our gardens, bicycles, or hobbies, whatever they are. If we looked at a relationship and put it up on a pedestal of importance, that’s at least equal to work, we wouldn’t think twice about setting aside two hours a week for that. We put into our work at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Why wouldn’t we take two hours of that entire week and say, ‘I want to do this for my relationship?’ I want to sit down and be playful about it, sometimes serious about it, get dreamy about it, get thoughtful about it, work on it.”
People then will sometimes say, generally one of them, “I shouldn’t have to work on my relationship. My relationship should be good. It should be good by itself.” That’s great. What part of your life runs like that? Your car doesn’t run like that. Your hobbies don’t run like that. Your work? Why would you expect this most beautiful foundation of your life? How could you expect it to work without investing?
The Cooking Analogy For Relationship Growth
If we have time, I want to share an analogy with your readers. We are so accustomed to the idea that the honeymoon phase is the pinnacle and what we are trying to do for the entire time, but you are going to have a whole life after that. Let’s like this happily ever after. That’s a whole lifetime, and we are so used to the idea that the honeymoon is the pinnacle and everything we are doing is trying to slow this inevitable descent into mediocrity, fighting, or something.
That’s how we are so accustomed to thinking about it, and it’s completely different. I believe that a relationship that’s 5 to 10 years old can be better than it was when it started. It can be better next year than it is this year. It can be better five years from now than it is this year. I give this analogy where let’s say you cook dinner together a couple of times a week. It’s that simple. You cook dinner, and you share it together.
It’s not a big deal. It’s something that you like to do. Now, what’s going to happen? I give this example specifically for couples who come in and say their sex life isn’t going well, and I say, “Think of it this way. You are cooking these meals a couple of times a week. What’s going to happen?” First of all, you are going to figure out how each of you can have a delicious meal. You don’t have to have the same taste, but you are going to figure out how both of you can have a delicious meal so that you don’t have to eat anything that you don’t like. I don’t like Brussels sprouts, my partner loves them. You are going to figure that out. That’s the beginning.
Then what’s going to happen? You are going to figure out who’s good at what. I’m good at the steak, my partner’s good at roasting the asparagus, and you are going to get your flow in the kitchen. You are going to figure out your different roles, and the meal is going to get better. Then what’s going to happen? I tried this delicious French thing in this restaurant, and I’d love to reverse engineer it and figure out, “I think you’ll like it too.”
You figure out you need better utensils. Pretty soon, after 5 or 10 years, those meals are going to be better than you can get in the restaurant because they are dialed into you. These meals are stellar. They are simple. There wasn’t any drama around it. There wasn’t any work or effort in it. You had this commitment to cooking a meal and having it be good, and it wasn’t a big deal.
That’s how your love life and relationship can thrive—by consistently putting in effort, collaborating, and working together as a team every single day. Share on XThat’s how your love life can be. That’s how your relationship can be. It’s because you are putting in effort, collaborating, and being a team together. On a daily basis, all of a sudden, you have something that’s so precious, fulfilling, delicious, and valuable that there’s nothing out there that you would want that compares to what you have at home. That’s how I think of it.
It’s a beautiful way to look at it, and your analogy is perfect because in that kitchen, whether someone wants more salt or more pepper or tries a new dish, that’s the part where when we try and get back to dating which many people want. That’s what the flow is in dating. It’s, “Let me meet you there. Let’s try this. Let me find out more. Let me find out. Let me do this.”
When we do that, because we have those skills when we are dating, all we need to do is keep using them. We have those skills become hardwired, and we create that. I also think using a very quick, slightly different analogy, I often tell people about our relationships. I agree with you. Many people say the honeymoon is the ultimate. You are hiking to the top of a mountain and you think that is the very best view, and you want to stay up there. You’ve missed a whole lot of the adventure.
For me, it’s not about getting to the top. It’s about the work of going through this crevasse and then pausing and being on a plateau and looking out, going, “My goodness.” Sometimes falling and having to get up, trying to get through this part of running into a waterfall, getting frozen while you are going through. That’s the journey of life. If we see all parts of it as a mindful adventure, not just the pinnacles, then we can see that this journey of relationship can be exquisite. It does take effort. It does take mindfulness, but it is a beautiful journey.
Last piece, going back to our reader’s question as we prepare to wind up. This person who’s thinking, “Should I have an affair? Should I go, what should I do?” As you said, as I said, we can’t tell anybody what to do, but a good friendship if there’s any chance for it to be infused with passion, adventure, and zest, this person is looking for we might at least advocate for giving or giving that part of it a try. Before parting as friends, what would you say?
I 100% agree and I want to go back to something that you were talking about. This person is someone you are connected with deeply, and think about what you want. If it occurs to you as a demand like, “This is what I want. Are you going to give this to me?” Notice that pattern, and instead think of it as an invitation. “This is how our relationship is. I have this vision of how our relationship could be better than it is. Does this inspire you? I’m inviting you to something that could be better than what we have. Is it as inspiring to you as it is to me? Let’s co-create something that we are both excited about.” At least give it a chance to make that offer and see if they are interested in it, and that should help you. That should tell you a lot.
Can you use one of my favorite words used at the beginning, and now here at the end, you are using it again? Invitation. It’s so important in our relationships to forego demands, to keep down defensiveness, and to encourage openness and connection. Think about making invitations. It’s a whole different energy. The energy of an invitation is open, loving, and yummy. Whereas a demand, “You must do this for me, or else.” That doesn’t feel good to anybody. Nobody.
Ken, this is fabulous. Where can our readers find you and learn more about your work?
If you want to contact me, you can visit my website. Super easy. If you want to learn more about the kinds of things I talk about and have a deeper dive into some of the subjects that we have talked about, I have a blog on Medium.
Ken, thank you so much for the beauty and loving energy you bring into the world and the hope, and I so appreciate you. Thank you for sharing your time with us.
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a lovely conversation.
It’s been beautiful. Thank you so much, and to our readers, thank you so much for being with us. As always, it’s such a joy and a pleasure to be with you.
Important Links
- Ken Blackman
- Date Smart
- The Joy of Imperfect Love
- The Craft Of Intimate Coupledom
- Ken Blackman on Instagram
- Ken Blackman on Facebook
- NAMI
- National Domestic Violence Hotline
- Dr. Carla Manly
- Dr. Carla Manly on Instagram
- Dr. Carla Manly on Twitter
- Dr. Carla Manly on Facebook
- Dr. Carla Manly on LinkedIn
- Dr. Carla Manly on Youtube
- Dr. Carla Manly on TikTok
About Ken Blackman
An international relationship and intimacy coach, Ken Blackman is currently celebrating his 25th year helping couples co-create a thriving, fulfilling life partnership and a gourmet love life. His work has garnered mentions in Business Insider, Playboy, Tim Ferriss’s 4-Hour series, Cosmopolitan, and elsewhere. Ken’s powerful, unapologetic break from conventional relationship advice is shifting the world conversation around love and committed coupledom. A former Apple engineer, Ken is a coach, speaker, educator, and author of the upcoming book, Powerful Woman, Confident Man: The New Art of Loving Passionately and Building a Resilient, Fulfilling Relationship. Ken’s life work is to guide couples through intimate human connection. Using truth, transparency, and compassion, he shows committed couples how to co-create a relationship that uniquely serves them.