There was a time in the not-too-distant past when aging was honored and seen as a natural part of life. Yet in today’s world, we’ve come to fear aging as if it’s a dark monster we must fight in order to be loved, seen, and respected. The culture of eternal youth eats away at our well-being on many levels. It creates an increasingly consumptive and expensive demand for youth-fostering surgeries and products. And for young and old alike, the youth culture feeds mental health issues such as low self-worth, depression, anxiety, and isolation. It also fosters ageism and self-ageism, issues that affect us all. The less we honor and embrace every stage of life, the more we marginalize parts of ourselves and our communities. How can we create the understanding, unity, and changes we need? Join Dr. Carla and ageism expert Lindsey McDivitt—writer and advocate for intergenerational understanding—as they explore the importance of joining together to combat ageism.

Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly

Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend

Aging Joyfully: A Woman’s Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and Beyond

The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships

 

Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:

Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarlamanly

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drcarlamanly

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drcarlamanly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-marie-manly-8682362b

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.carlamariemanly8543

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr_carla_manly

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Struggling with Aging or Ageism? How to Embrace a Vibrant Outlook at Every Age with Expert Lindsey McDivitt

Discover How to Eliminate the Aging Stereotypes that Contribute to Ageism and Mental Health Issues!

Introduction To Aging

There was a time in the not-too-distant past when aging was honored and seen as a natural part of life. Yet, in today’s world, we’ve come to fear aging as if it’s a dark monster we must fight in order to be loved, seen, and respected. The culture of eternal youth, it’s away at our well-being on many levels. It creates an increasingly consumptive and expensive demand for youth-fostering surgeries and products.

Also, for young and old alike, the youth culture feeds mental health issues, such as low self-worth, depression, anxiety, and isolation. It also fosters ageism and self-ageism issues that affect us all. The less we honor and embrace every stage of life, the more we marginalize parts of ourselves and our communities. How can we create the understanding, unity, and changes we need? Join me and ageism expert Lindsey McDivitt, writer and advocate for intergenerational understanding, as we explore the importance of joining together to combat ageism.

In this episode, we’ll focus on this reader’s real-life question. “I’m in my late 50s and was let go from my job due to downsizing. I’m a hard worker with a good work history, but I can’t get anyone to hire me. I know it’s due to my age. Even if I didn’t need the money, which I do, I’m not ready to retire. It makes it even worse that I lost my friend group because they were coworkers and I don’t see them anymore. I never felt old or lonely until this happened. Is it normal for me to feel mad and depressed?”

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I’m joined by a very special guest, Lindsey McDivitt, who will be sharing her expertise on aging and ageism. Welcome to the show, Lindsey. It’s such a delight to share time with you.

Thank you so much, Carla. I’m so pleased to be here.

Before we launch into the meat of this episode, can you tell our readers just a little bit about what makes you, you?

I think that I approach ageism from a slightly different angle than many people. I worked in healthcare with older adults for many years. Like your reader, I was let go in my latter 50s from my healthcare job, and it was a recession. I had to dig deep to figure out what I was going to do next to handle the natural depression and separation from coworkers and so forth. I turned to a passion that I’d had for a long time but never had the energy or the courage to pursue. I started writing books for children. My focus quickly became age stereotypes as they started to read picture books and see age stereotypes everywhere.

Thank you for sharing that with me and our readers. I didn’t realize that there was such a parallel here. When I matched you and your expertise with this question, I didn’t realize that it was very similar to what you had experienced. I very much appreciate that and know that it will bring a great deal to the conversation.

The other piece, in looking at your website, I enjoyed seeing how you have been so informed by not only your own work in the realm of healthcare but also by foundational people like Betty Friedan and her book on aging and the adventure, so to speak, of aging. Also, how you pivoted, as you were just saying. This, to me, is so intriguing that you started looking and even your blog is for aging.

Ageism In Picture Books

You’re looking at how even something as simple and as beautiful as a child’s picture book promotes stereotypical images of what it is to be an older adult. Thus, that in itself contributes to ageism. It’s stunning. Before we focus on the question, can you tell us a little bit about what you found in these picture books when you were starting to look through them and how you see that as connected to ageism?

It was a few years ago that I started to dig into what, at that time, were modern contemporary picture books. I was stunned that so often, the child was helping the older adult and the older adult was frail and dependent. They are often forgetful and grumpy. Perhaps the child would be the one that has to cheer up the older adult and there was very little of strength and the benefits of experience and wisdom being shared by an older adult. I was incredibly disappointed because I had worked primarily with stroke survivors and been so inspired. I had so many amazing role models. They were stunning in their ability to be able to accept a life change so quickly. They draw on strengths and amazing resilience. I wasn’t seeing much of that at all.

I’m very appreciative because I like learning all the time, and I’ve learned from you and looking at what I have so far about your work, to shift stereotypes. When you started many years ago, let’s say it was an eight-year-old reading your picture book. That eight-year-old is now twenty years old. That twenty-year-old is very soon going to be making decisions and is already making decisions in voting and all of those things. They very soon will be making huge decisions that will ultimately impact not only this day’s seniors, but very soon, those policies get in motion and they will be affecting their own lives in 40 years.

We don’t tend to see that ripple effect. You point out so beautifully that in picture books, it’s the grumpy grandpa or the very soft, cushion-like grandma sitting in a chair nurturing, and that’s beautiful. However, not every grandma is sitting in a chair with an ample lap ready to read. She may be out doing her own work to change the world. We concede through this magnificent lens that you offer us that’s stereotyping, that ageism begins in childhood. Who knew?

It absolutely does. Ageism flies under the radar, but if you look at sexism or racism, we all know that kids are influenced from picture books from early exposures to adults’ attitudes and from the media in many aspects. They’re forming those attitudes that might last a lifetime, especially if they’re not challenged or exposed to the diversity of people out there. As we grow older, we become more diverse. Ashton Applewhite has written a tremendous book, This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism. She talks about how if you know one 80-year-old, you know one 80-year-old. We become more different as we get older and I find that to be very true.

As we grow older, we become more diverse. Share on X

I agree with you. If we begin to look at age as the true spectrum that it is with gifts at every age, and you are right, one 80-year-old is simply one 80-year-old just like you can have a twenty-year-old who’s quite lethargic and wants to sit in their rocking chair. Also, you can have a 70-year-old, 80-year-old, or 90-year-old who has no interest in that whatsoever.

However, what I like focusing on when we’re talking about aging and ageism is that, as you say, ageism goes under the radar. We’re all about #MeToo. No offenses against people and I’m behind all of this against marginalizing people of color and women. We forget that we don’t want to marginalize the older population because when we do that, we are minimizing the impact they can have on us and our world because there’s such intelligence there.

There is such a wisdom there and so much force for good that we can embrace. When we are guilty of ageism, what we do just like when there’s sexism, we tend to marginalize people and thus marginalize the part of ourselves that can learn, grow, connect, and unify with another segment of the population that we can embrace as part of our community.

This is very true, Carla, and I think that it’s so easy to forget that we are marginalizing ourselves because if we’re fortunate enough to live a long life, eventually, we will be impacted by ageism. It’s something that we can change and something that we won’t realize how painful it is often until we get older or until maybe our 50s. I also want to make the point that ageism does cut both ways. Young people can suffer from ageism, too.

That stereotyping and discrimination can apply to somebody who’s assigned to a certain generation and proclaimed as lazy or assigned to a certain age that’s considered too young for a job. Many things like that are ageism. It’s just that often, we don’t experience it in a painful way that we can’t even fight against until we become older.

I appreciate you bringing that up because you are right. In fact, I did an episode with John Schlimm where we were talking about Gen Z. For many people, they look at Gen Z-ers and say, “They’re all lazy. They’re all tied to their phones,” and that is ageism. Any time we globalize and say, “This group is lazy or bad or too old or too young,” we are not seeing the amazing individuals within that group and then we’ve generalized.

We have these glasses on that are very clouded to seeing the individuals. I thank you for highlighting many of these important points because, as adults, then it becomes our responsibility to start looking at, “When I’m buying a picture book for my child, what are the images in there? When I’m talking to my teens about ageism, are they experiencing ageism? What are their attitudes toward younger people? What are their attitudes toward middle age? What are their attitudes toward later age?

Many people, many years ago in tribal communities, etc. saw the elders as carriers of wisdom. As these beautiful holders of sacred stories and all of this wealth of information, whether it was about medicines, passing on the stories or the important rituals, we’ve lost that partly because we’ve lost so many rituals in our culture.

Also, all too often, it’s so easy to search for something on the internet. We think, “I’d like to know this,” or, “I’d like to know more about that,” or, “I have a question.” We don’t turn to an older adult with more experience. We just search for it on the internet. The other point I want to make is that yes, I totally agree with you. It’s important to have these conversations starting when our kids are young and adults. Also, as older adults, to have the conversations about ageism and stereotypes.

There are two points. One is that we all have to acknowledge that we are ageist. All of us are harboring ageist beliefs and we have to root them out, face them, and educate ourselves, but the other point is it’s a hard conversation sometimes because we don’t have enough information. It’s something that we haven’t been exposed to. Many people don’t understand what ageism is all about or they think it is totally pertaining to respecting our elders, not realizing the depth of the problem and that it can affect so many of us at different ages.

I agree that it’s important for us to look at whatever thoughts, feelings, or mindsets are going on inside ourselves that contribute to ageism. Start looking at them, and like you said, get to the root, not judge them. To look and see, “When I see this young person, I think, ‘They’re just wasting their time. They’re not a committed worker.’” Also, when I see this older person, I think, “They’re just whiling away their time until they finally pass away or whatever.”

However, again, not seeing the individual or, in the case of the person who wrote in, somebody may see this individual, see a resume, and maybe meet the person for an interview and go, “That person’s too old. They’re going to be too slow. Better let them go now or not hire them at all than to put them in the workforce and have them slowly declining before our very eyes.”

All too often, aging is regarded as a time of decline and someone who’s only looking at death but we have to acknowledge we’re aging from our very birth. We’re aging, growing, and changing our entire lives. Also, there’s nothing inherently bad about aging. We’re also gaining so much. I remember in my early research learning that there’s a U-curve of happiness and that people at the early ages, like childhood and their later late adulthood are the happiest. It’s that middle time of life that can be challenging for many people. I’m seeing that myself at 66. I feel much happier than I was in those middle years and feel I still have lots to look forward to.

People in early childhood and in late adulthood are the happiest. Share on X

I love how you look at that through the lens of the individual. There may be people who are 66 or 56 or 36 who feel tired and worn out. “I’m not learning anything.” I’ve worked with clients who, when they’re 29 or 30, say, “I don’t feel relevant any longer. I feel as if the young people are already pushing me out,” and we want to take care with our mindsets.

It doesn’t mean that’s not happening to them, but realize that in those middle days of life, those middle years of life, we’re often so focused on producing and getting the first home or apartment. Also, making all these big career changes and making the movements that help us create a good foundation and then alter life is a time where you can start winding that down a bit and turn energy toward creating more joy and self-awareness.

Not that you can’t do it at every stage of life, but sometimes you just have more bandwidth or more time. There’s this element of older life where people can do a phenomenal amount of growing and giving back to the world if the world is willing and wanting. I was talking to a neighbor the other day who is retired, and she realized she needs to get back into the workforce to make enough money. She’s very well educated. She went and interviewed for a gardening position at a nursery.

She thought it would be a lovely fit. Just enough money to help her with her bills. They told her, “We don’t think it’s a good fit. Perhaps go volunteer somewhere.” This is a highly active, intelligent woman. That is an act of ageism. The individuals who made that decision or said those words likely weren’t aware of it. In this world, it’s important for us all to pause and look at how we view aging separately. You are very good at separating. That’s part of your tagline that there is a difference between aging and ageism. For our readers, could you point out the very big difference between aging and ageism?

Aging is something that is normal and that is positive in many regards as we add experience with our years and apply the wisdom that we’ve gained. However, I think ageism totally turns out on its head where that person who’s been aging and changing themselves is viewed as the same as everybody else at that age. You could be judged as a large cohort, which sometimes seems to go from 50 up to 100 or you could be judged as a Baby Boomer or so forth, but nobody’s looking at you individually and all that you’ve added to your life over those years. They’re just making one judgment on your age.

Aging Vs. Ageism

Beautifully put and it’s interesting. Just taking a slight pivot before we get back to the reader’s question. In my second book, Aging Joyfully, I talk about self-ageism. It was a term I coined because I realized that so many of the people I was working with, regardless of gender, but often women, were saying things like, “I’m too old for this.” “It’s too late for me to shift careers.” Even at 39 or 45, they were already telling themselves, “I’m too old. I don’t have the capacity to do this anymore. I’ve come to it too late in life.”

Also, younger folks saying, “I’m too young for this,” or, “My parents are telling me I shouldn’t do this because I’m too young,” or, “I’m telling myself I’m too young.” Again, some of that is ageism from others, but we also want to be careful of the voices that are going on inside our own minds that are telling us that we are either too young for something or too old for something because I am a firm believer that we are never too old to be the person to do the things that we want to do.

Certainly, taking health reasons and mental health factors into account so that we’re safe for ourselves and other people. However, I believe that if we are aware of self-ageism, we come or ageism looking out at others. We realize that if we’re making judgments based solely on chronological age, we are selling everyone short across the spectrum. Any choice made solely on chronological age to me is a pretty ridiculous choice.

You make a good point about self-ageism. Those negative stereotypes we take in from all these different sources like the picture books, the TV shows, the movies, ads, and magazines, all that is contributing to that self-ageism. When you see it and you take it in and you believe it, it hampers you not just in how you look at other people, but how you look at yourself. The choices you make won’t be as open an as courageous as they could be. That’s sad when that happens.

When you see, internalize, and believe stereotypes, they hinder your perception of others and yourself, limiting your choices and courage. Share on X

It’s very sad because you did a pivot later in life. I did a big pivot at a time when I might have been telling myself I was too old. I believe that when we have the courage to make those pivots, ignore the chronological date on the calendar, the year on the calendar, because what’s most important? Also, research shows that throughout the lifespan that when we are willing to engage in self-growth, we are willing to evolve, to continue to learn, and continue to grow, that is how we stay not as young because it’s not important to stay on it. It’s important to stay vibrant. It’s important to stay curious. It’s important to stay in a state of wonder and evolution.

That’s why I think the whole Fountain of Youth culture doesn’t serve us very well at any end of the spectrum because you see. I said I’ll take it back to the reader’s question, but I keep thinking of more thoughts where in my town, I see billboards all over the place for, “Get this shot. Buy this product. Do this plastic surgery. Scan this QR code to get payments on this augmentation,” or whatever it is.

I’m thinking, if I were twenty and seeing all of those messages everywhere telling me. Fifteen-year-olds are seeing them and fifteen-year-olds are becoming very high consumers of plastic surgeries, Botox, and all of this to ward off at that very young age the beast of aging. It’s frightening and it does contribute. Now, circling back to our question, it does contribute to the ageism that would affect somebody getting laid off prematurely, if indeed it was solely due to age or not being hired due to age.

It’s because if they’re looking at somebody’s face or their age rather than their qualifications, they may be saying unconsciously, “Youth is better.” If we’re picking between a 55-year-old or 50-year-old and a 25-year-old or 30-year-old, we’re definitely going to go with a younger one because that person is definitely going to be better.

All those untrue stereotypes that come into play are things like, “Older adults are not tech-savvy or not able to learn when it comes to technology or that they’re not going to be as reliable because they’ll be sick or that they, in general, won’t be able to learn new information. The truth is that research is showing that older employees bring a lot to the workplace and that they’re often more reliable and the whole technology fear is not really there for most older adults. Those are all little bits of that stereotype about older adults.

Thank you for sharing that, and I agree with you. The research shows us that older adults have so much to offer, not just through wisdom and life experience, but cognitively, the diversity of what they have experienced in life. Many older adults are very curious, lifelong learners, and we don’t want to minimize the gifts that come in every spectrum of life. There are so many gifts that it doesn’t have to be this or that.

When we become more unified in any environment, whether it’s through genders, races or political diversity, it’s what makes the world so beautiful. Creating harmony with that rather than divisiveness helps us all learn from each other because older adults can learn from younger ones and younger ones can learn from older ones. It creates this beautiful web that our world really needs.

Anger Related To Ageism

Let’s take it to the readers’ question for a moment and I love that you have this very real life experience of your own where you were let go. It sounds as if you went into depression. The individual who wrote in said, “Was she right to feel angry and depressed? What would you say about that?

For me, it was the middle of a Minnesota winter, so it was very depressing to feel isolated all of a sudden. I think probably one of the most important things is to do everything you can to not be isolated, to find new friend groups or new colleagues, whether in a volunteer position, or people in the same boat searching for a new job. You need people around you that are going to understand your plight and you need to be not feeling alone and it can be a very lonely feeling.

You had also said, if I heard you right, that you lost all of your friends or many of your friends because they were in your workgroup.

I was fortunate to have friends from other areas of my life, but if you are in a role that you love and you’ve been working there for a while, your colleagues become a very important part of your circle and they’re part of your daily life so yeah it’s painful.

How did you deal with the pain and the isolation in your situation?

I initially would take my laptop and go to coffee shops. Just being around the sounds of people and chatting. My best friend became a barista for a while. It helped her to get out of the house and to be around other human beings. Once my kids went off to school, then I actually had to move. I was moving states also and leaving behind friends in that regard. I had to force myself to join things, which isn’t easy to do when you’re feeling depressed, but you need to get out there and do your best until it starts to feel a little bit more natural and you meet people you have something in common with.

What did you force yourself to join?

Three book clubs. While I’m a writer now and I love to read, I’ve never liked being told what to read. I had a hard time with being presented with, “These are the books we’re going to be reading and discussing,” but I knew I needed the socialization. Book clubs were important to me.

Thank you for sharing that because I think any time, and I think this for the reader’s question, is so important because people often form their friendships through work that’s very natural or through college friendships that have endured over time, the person in the house next door, or whatever it is. However, I often hear from many of my clients that as they get older, if they’ve lost a job, have retired, or moved, other people don’t tend to open up their friend groups to them.

People seem to have their friendship groups formed by the time they’re in their 30s and are quite resistant to other people coming in on more than a peripheral level, if they will even allow that. I appreciate that you brought up the idea of groups because it does take some out-of-the-box thinking, but by going online, there are so many groups, especially through Meetup, where you can find hiking groups. You can find painting and gardening groups.

Also, as you say, book clubs. This doesn’t address her question about employment and we can get into that, but I think that once you get some more friends at whatever level you need, it doesn’t have to be a lot of friends. For some people, just having one or two friends feels good and that can help with mental health. Just that alone of not feeling isolated. What are your thoughts on that from what you’ve seen?

Absolutely. I like to put in a plug for online friends. I try not to spend too much time online, but it can be a lonely occupation when you’re a writer. I never did find that same kind of setting where I was working with colleagues day in and day out. I relied on finding writer friends through conferences, even online conferences and social media, and then connecting with those people. I’ve never met some of them in person, but I depend on them for support and sometimes for professional advice. There are a lot of groups out there and they’re not all in-person groups too.

As much as we might hear that online isn’t positive, beneficial, or good enough, I am in agreement with you that as long as you’re not feeling isolated by meeting someone on Zoom or chatting, if it’s working for you and it’s feeling good, then lean into it. I also don’t want to miss the opportunity to comment on you and your relationship with your coffee shop barista because I know how important it is to talk to many clients who feel alone, where they find a way, and I advocate for this.

Go out to a park where you can sit on a bench and talk to someone who sits down. Go to a coffee shop. Make friends with someone in the coffee shop, a little light chat or chat with the barista, whomever it is, because most humans really need that connection. At least, microdoses of face-to-face human connection in order to not feel isolated.

It’s because once you feel isolated, which is different from being alone, it is a sense of being cut off from something you need. Sometimes, we want to be alone, but if you feel isolated, then you tend to turn inward and go down that rabbit hole that you do not want of anxiety or depression and so much at every age group, particularly with older adults.

Older adults who socialize and stay connected tend to have great mental health and, concomitantly, good physical health. At every age, we see those who are more isolated, but again, particularly with older adults, health and well-being decline so that connection wherever you can get it is so important.

I like what you’re saying, Carla, about microdoses because I agree with you there. Apart from the barista, I remember having to go into a copy shop where I would have to make copies and do some other things like sending faxes and so forth. That person also became a major contact when I had to move to a new city. Having those daily cheerful conversations can pull you out of yourself, and then you can get a dog and meet other dog people. It’s super important. 

Daily cheerful conversations with people can help pull you out of isolation and lift your spirits. Share on X

Absolutely, because when we are feeling more connected, less depressed, and less anxious, we tend to have a different kind of vibe for our readers who may be interviewing at other jobs. If she’s interviewing or reaching out when she’s feeling low and depressed, that might come across in an interview. Whereas if she’s able to make some connections and create some friendships, even the more superficial ones.

I recall talking to a client who felt so isolated and gone down this rabbit hole and couldn’t go outside. When I started working with her, she was really self-isolating at that point. We talked about what she could do and what she couldn’t do. She was even having her groceries delivered. What she could do was go to the store and buy a bag of carrots and that felt like a win for her. Even on an excursion to the grocery store, you don’t even have to talk to anyone. You can say hello to the checker, but just getting used to having connection can be so uplifting.

We can start with microdoses. Taking it back to the question of the day and the idea of the anger. I don’t want to skip over that piece because I happen to hear it frequently wherever the ageism is coming from, the younger or the older end, but particularly the older one because it’s so pronounced. It seems to make people feel so helpless and, thus, often very angry. What do you think about the anger aspect of it? I know there’s often a lot below the anger, the sadness, the grief, and all of that. What would you recommend?

That’s definitely true when you’re in a situation like that where you’re let go or laid off, whatever. There’s a whole ball of wax when it comes to emotions and anger is definitely one of them. In my situation, it was a recession and I understood that the company had to make those kinds of hard decisions. I had felt valued there prior to that. Especially when you’re older, you do feel like perhaps that had something to do with it that it was taken into consideration.

It feels really unfair and that contributes to the anger. That unfairness that you feel you’re being judged because perhaps you are one of the older ones on the team. Talking it over with people, people who understand, and people your age. I had the benefit of having been exposed professionally to aging and ageism issues, so I knew where to look for information. I would say to do some searching if you feel like that was part of the mix. You’ll learn you’re not alone, and that helps a lot.

I agree with processing and talking about it. If you can’t afford psychotherapy, join a women’s group or a men’s group. Here’s the other piece that I like that you brought up about making connections. When we have the courage to make connections, we never know which one of those connections when we’re talking about, “I need a job or a part-time job or this or that,” where somebody says, “I know just the thing. I know somebody who’s looking for someone full-time. You’d be a great fit.”

We don’t ever want to underestimate the power of putting ourselves out there, even though it’s hard when you’re angry and depressed. However, they’re not mutually exclusive. I see the synergy in it because there are times in my life when I’ve been angry or blue or whatever. You almost have to just embrace and discover some inner courage so that you can get yourself out there because no one’s going to find you if you’re isolated at home.

Really working to reach out for that support and then become part of the change by getting out there and showing people that regardless of your age, you can shine. You can be this wonderful force in the world. She’s passed away now, but one of my favorite role models when I went back to Doctoral school was Marion Woodman. She was a teacher but found her second life. She wrote books and she created the Marion Woodman Foundation.

She was working with all sorts of things, including helping people with eating disorders and helping people with perfectionism. I remember when I finally met her. She was just gorgeous. She was probably 84 at the time and is gorgeous. Sparkling eyes and this beautiful smile and this luminous skin. I thought, “This is a wise woman,” and indeed she was. I didn’t see age. I saw wisdom and beauty.

I was so fortunate like you and had older role models, and I could remind myself, “These people had conquered much more than I was facing. If they could do it, I could at least take those baby steps.” Looking for those role models in your life can help, but also, most of us, by the time we get to be in our 50s, we’ve faced some other tough times and we can remind ourselves that we got through that. We probably have the skills to take those early steps and they will make a difference.

Looking for role models in your life can help, and most of us, by the time we get to be in our 50s, have faced tough times and can remind ourselves that we got through them. Share on X

You said one of my favorite phrases, “Take baby steps.” So often, when we’ve suffered a big life change, we think we have to make a massive move. The massive move and steps seem just too insurmountable, yet when we look and say, “I can have this goal of going back to work, of finding a job, of doing this, of doing that, but what about baby steps?” Baby steps are so much more doable to the psyche, to the body, mind, and spirit. Baby steps are good because they create a giant step on a cumulative level, and it’s the most wonderful way to take baby steps. It’s a good thing.

Write them down, cross them off, and give yourself credit for those steps. That’s what I did for a couple of years. Paper calendars, too, so you can physically check those things off. I find it satisfying.

I’m much the same. I love having my lists and being able to check them off. There’s something about the tactile that having it on the computer doesn’t give that tactile sense of achievement. Thank you for calling that out because I believe and often talk when somebody has a goal. Have a main goal regardless of your age, and then underneath that main goal, whatever it is, it can be big or small, do micro goals. If you are feeling isolated, your main goal may be, “I am isolated and I want to make friends.” Underneath that, it could be looking online for groups by this weekend, and then you’ll be able to check that off.

Closing Thoughts

The next step may be to join one of the groups I find by the end of the month, but whatever they are, they do allow a sense of achievement and that sense of achievement helps the depression and the anxiety move away because it is creating a sense of empowerment. I think that it’s important, regardless of age, that we have a sense of personal power. That’s one of the saddest parts. One of the most unfortunate parts about ageism, wherever it is on the spectrum, is that it eats away at our sense of personal power, self-efficacy, and agency and never feels good. Lindsey, you have brought so much wisdom and beautiful life experience to us. Do you have any other thoughts for our readers?

Thank you. I’ve enjoyed being here and talking with you. I’d like to say that, please, think about the people in your life that are young and already taking in those age stereotypes. Make a bit of an effort to expose them to some role models, whether it be through picture books. Even older kids like picture books, especially true stories like this picture book biographies. I think you are quite amazing and have important lessons in them. Also, they are very engaging. Start there.

You have written some amazing books. You and I have talked about Christmas Fairies for Ouma. I love the illustrations in that book, but the other books that you’ve written about older adults have contributed so much. Could you give our readers just a little dose of those? I think you have three of them.

Thank you. Yes, I do. As I said, they’re picture book biographies of real people. One is Nelson Mandela. I was born in South Africa and I won’t share too much here, but it was important to me to go back to the change South Africa, the post-apartheid era. I learned everything I could about Nelson Mandela and how he helped to make that happen and change that beautiful country.

I have one about President Ford, a book called Truth and Honor. Also, one about Gwen Frostic, who is a nature artist that probably many have not heard of, but she was an early environmentalist. It’s called Nature’s Friend: The Gwen Frostic Story. After I’d written these books, I realized that they are all people who accomplished some pretty amazing things in their later lives and are role models also. You can get your role models in books and not just in person.

Thank you. Those all sound like such great reads. I did want to mention the Christmas Fairies for Ouma. I remember you and I did an episode on that ages ago, but the illustrations were so beautiful but also the message. If I recall correctly, it had to do with people in your family who were in South Africa.

It’s a fictional book, yes but it’s based on a true story. Its theme is kindness. I was separated from my grandparents when I was young by 10,000 miles and I would see them just once every three years yet maintain a relationship through letters. This is based on a little family miracle we called it, where a picture of princesses that my sister and I drew and mailed with gold bond stamps, which have no real value like coupons.

In the book, I used stickers, but it was mailed with not even a full address, just Ouma, which means grandmother, Afrikaans, the city, and the country and yet somehow, through the kind acts of many people across the world, it kept getting passed on and it finally, by a miracle ended up in my grandmother’s hands at her doctor’s office. We never knew how that happened. I always wanted to write about that. The book fictionalizes it, but I know it’s based on kind people who keep passing it forward. The theme of that book is kindness. It was a delight to see that with the beautiful illustrations by Katarzyna Bukiert, and holding that in my hands was a special moment.

Thank you. You have filled my heart with that last piece because it took me back to that episode and now I recall the reaching. It brings the podcast full circle in a way because we’re seeing how important it is for youth to be connected to elders and elders to be connected to youth. When we have that range and that respect at both ends, it creates such community and sacred love.

It creates this beautiful place for all of us. Again, no one’s being marginalized in that story at all. In fact, it’s about the beauty of kindness and enduring love. I think that’s such a beautiful message from that book and I can’t wait to see your other works. Thank you, Lindsey. It has been such a joy and a delight. Where can our readers find you?

Thank you so much, Carla, for asking me. It’s LindseyMcDivitt.com or AIsForAging.com will get you to the right place. Thank you.

You’re so welcome. Readers, I have been to Lindsey’s website. Be prepared. It’s fabulous. It’s so personal and so beautiful, but so much information for you to comb through. It’s lovely. Again, Lindsey, thank you for being with us. I thank you also for being with us. It’s been a joy.

 

 Important Links:

• Lindsey McDivitt
• This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism
• John Schlimm – past episode
• Aging Joyfully
• Christmas Fairies for Ouma
• Truth and Honor
• Nature’s Friend: The Gwen Frostic Story
• AIsForAging.com
• https://www.LindseyMcDivitt.com/blog/
• https://www.Instagram.com/mcdivittlindsey/
• https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/lindsey-mcdivitt-32907034/
• https://www.Pinterest.com/aisforaging/_saved/
• https://Twitter.com/AisforAging

 

About Lindsey McDivitt

A writer and advocate for intergenerational understanding, Lindsey McDivitt’s first career was in healthcare after earning a Speech and Hearing Science degree from the University of Minnesota. Before long, she created educational programs and taught workshops for survivors of stroke and healthcare professionals. She was steeped in the lives of stroke survivors—so many amazing older role models. In her 50’s, she made a major career change to write picture books—fiction and non-fiction. It was a steep learning curve, and her first book was published when she was 60. Lindsey continues to write fiction and non-fiction for children including picture book biographies such as “A Plan for the People: Nelson Mandela’s Hope for his Nation” and “Nature’s Friend: The Gwen Frostic Story.” Her first fictional picture book, Christmas Fairies for Ouma, was published in 2022. Lindsey is passionate about tackling ageism in books for children. Find her at www.lindseymcdivitt.com where she reviews picture books with accurate and diverse images of aging and older adults on her blog “A is for Aging.”